St. Louis isn't that Racist...But it does suck hard culturally! (Clayton: fit in, apartment complex)

[desperad0stl]

Now I can tell you that St. Louis generally isn't a racist city...Its a larger american city where the vast vast vast majority of the population has a very small town mentality and that small town mentality comes with ignorance...

I have lived in St. Louis most of my life and have a unique story of having lived in every different type of neighborhood...

I am half african american and half mexican (and have a jewish stepmother and half brothers, Im screwed! lol)...I was born into the south side of st. louis and moved to north county (hazelwood) when i was young and lived there until i was about 14...I then moved to west county (creve coeur) and attended Chaminade and then moved to Ladue and graduated from Ladue High and spent a ton of time hanging out with my many friends in Clayton and U. City...
Every township in St. Louis is pretty much treated as its own city and people really dont know much about the areas outside of their immediate areas and their immediate neighboring townships.

About 95% of my friends from north county are on the path to living in that area for their entire lives and don't know much about the rest of their city. My friends in Ladue refuse to go clubbing and eating in the city because they still think the entire city is a ghetto. My own family members in the north and south side refuse to come to the west end and west county where I live and have a business because the majority of the people in these areas are white and just stay in their own areas.
People generally segregate themselves and I honestly do it as well where I refuse to go to South County because the majority of the population there is white working class and I can honestly say I am more scared to end up in South county than any of the roughest ghettos of the city.

It is a very strange place with so many boundaries that 95% of the population refuse to cross.

I personally have been harassed by the police in the area that I live but when I speak to them and they notice that I am educated they are threwn off and always mark my ethnicity as white if they pull me over and have issued me a ticket haha.

I have spent lots of time in Chicago and love how you can go to most neighborhoods and every culture is mixing black, white, asians, gay, straight and no one bats an eye...
If you go to a black club in St. Louis and you are not black you will get many glares and curious looks (it doesn't phase me but it is annoying as hell)...same goes for me in Suburban bars.
People are still threwn off in St. Louis when mixing is going on, but generally you will not be harassed.

Many of my Chicago friends came down and asked to go to a hip hop club...but when you are talking about St. Louis hip hop club goes hand and hand with "Ghetto and all black"...it threw my Chicago friends off big time.


My summary is culturally St. Louis does kind of suck. It saddens me that the definition of a latin night in St. Louis is drunken northern mexicans with hoorible tejano music...no salsa, no merengue, no bachata...just reggaeton and cholos (Hell I lived in Beijing for a year and they had 3 gigantic salsa clubs that had awesome latin nights...heh)
There are not a lot of latinos they are 2% of the population.
Most things in St. Louis can be classified as either black or white...if you are looking for a date in St. Louis and you are not black or white good luck. (Outside of the little culture bubbles like South Grand, University neighborhoods, and the CWE)...
Most of St. Louis is very very mainstream...dont look forward to hearing anything but rock and hip hop at the very mainstream clubs...you can sum up almost all St. Louis clubs by one statement...Top 40! (Because of this all clubs end up canabilizing eachother because they are all the same and they tend to fail)
Be prepared to have most "ethnic" restaurants be heavily americanized and catered to the american palette....There is only one street i can truly turn to for authentic mexican and that is Cherokee and for asian there is south grand and olive.

If you are looking for a culturally diverse city, do not come to St. Louis.
You will be tolerated but you will be misunderstood
Well there's my two cents.

[desperad0stl]

there were more times though that I had bad experiences with the police...
I did break my own back yard basement window (from the inside lol) when i was a teenager with a football by accident and had a cop come pull his gun on me when i was inside my house (Ladue)

I also had a time where it was about -10 windchill i got a flat and pulled into an apartment complex to fix the flat and pulled into an empty carport to change my tire and break the wind...someone thought i was stealing my own car and a few units pulled up and had a gun pulled on me again...

I should say...i kind of blamed the police...but the people mostly to blame were the people who called them on me...
I can honestly say if i was a white kid in these situations, the cops probably wouldnt have been pulling out their guns.

I do love the clayton PD and people in clayton in general...sure they busted all of my high school parties at friends houses and learned to call me by name ha but they were always respectful and clayton people arent shocked when a black/latino kid is walking through their neighborhood...often i have random people come talk to me instead of look at me like satan reborn in my own neighborhood.

I also have been looking for a basic job for the past 8 months and can't seem to get a job anywhere...I ran a test out of spite to see if my white buddies would get called back that mutually agreed that they have less experience than me...they always do get called back...If i want to be a line cook or a dishwasher ill have a job by the end of the day...but...yeah.
(I am a college student and just got back from studying abroad for a year in Beijing, speak spanish, english, and mandarin fluently)

Can the baby boomers from old money please go away? lol

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that St. Louis is a bit racist, but I'm not going to get called a slur to my face, get jumped by a group of white kids or anything like that...you're otherwise safe.
I don't feel that way in South County though...
If I go to Spain alone and walk the streets of Madrid, i've heard that I might get jumped just for being what I am...I dont have those worries in STL.

[goat314]

Everyone seems to think that St. Louis is this ultra racist town, while Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles get this love for being so racially inclusive. The fact is that racism is an American problem, not exclusive to the Lou. Chicago is just as racist if not more racist than St. Louis and has the history of race riots to prove it. Its just that a lot of times bigger and more cosmopolitan cities can better hide racism in their diversity and progressive politics. Another things is that St. Louis is not a bad city by any means. When I used to live there I felt the same way as you and then I moved to Florida. Ya know the sunny, diverse place under Georgia.....and let me tell you, when you live in a place like Tampa for a couple years you realize that culturally St. Louis has a lot to offer (world class Zoo, historical charm, beloved sport teams, local foods and pizza, a quirky culture) you start missing St. Louis after a while. oh yeah cliques are everwhere get over it!

[desperad0stl]

I can say honestly...My mother lived in chicago for 6 years i am very familiar with chicago and I visit NYC about once a month I know these 2 places very well...and new york is much more "segregated" in terms of where people live.

What I'm trying to get at is diversity is lacking...everything is the same. Everything seems to only have 2 poles which are black and white with nothing else to offer. You get a guy like me who is half black and half latino who is already confused lol...what im trying to get at is that it does not offer what a lot of other cities would...I lack an identity as I am not classified as either black or mexican black people in STL say im not black and Mexicans well forget about it.

It is way too exclusive in this town...and what makes it worse is that mixing is still looked at like woah son thats mighty dangerous...we best slow down with that.

Like I said...you can go anywhere....Anyyyywheerree in Chicago and find everyone mixing...I dont care if there is racism going on everyone is being progressive and mixing together...I love how in a place with a lot of "diversity" you will see every walk of life in the city's core. Outside of the city you still have your very segregated neighborhoods, fine whatever...

The thing that really sucks is that there is a potential for really hip places that promote diversity in this town, but no one wants to do it because they know that say an establishment like a nightclub...they know if they play top 40 hits and z107.7 and pop and pop hip hop theyre going to have a full house fine you cant blame them...everywhere you go every place is the same...same ol crap.

Every major city has its cliques and places to go if you want to participate in that...but whats lacking is if you dont want to take part in that bs. I'm always the guy that stands out like a sore thumb like woah what is that guy doing in here...did he get lost on his way to mowing my lawn lol. (Would you want to be the only white guy in the club everywhere you went consistently on a weekly basis?)
Im not insecure about it...it just really sucks. I might get some easy attention from some open minded girls since I do stand out....wish they were all like that
When it comes to cultural diversity the smallest stuff annoys the hell out of me...like a place like Chevy's or Nacho Mama's consistently winning "best Mexican food" which mexicans themselves just laugh at because its not mexican...(same goes for every kind of ethnic food i can imagine besides bosnian or vietnamese)

I hear the same thing from all the confused people like me...those that dont fit into the white pole or the black pole. N' thats pretty much all there is.
No one wants to have a progressive mindset...everyone wants this place to stay the way it is...fine thats your right.
I grew up here in a great community and everyone in my community is fascinated of the fact that an educated blaxican exists "wow you go to college ey?!" ...constantly having to prove to the police that I live where I do...my speech and the way I dress should be a dead giveaway that I am a product of west county.
you get to a point where enough is enough.
All I was saying is if you're like me...or basically if you are young and dont fit into either pole then STL is not for you.

I've been taken seriously in Chicago and NYC and even Beijing (international cities) because they have seen guys like me before, but when it comes to STL being a college student and not wanting to mow lawns run a dishwasher or be a cook in the kitchen, then I cant get a job (which I havent since returning to USA in january 08 after mounds of resumes and interviews (i've been told that I kill interviews)...hell in china i got paid $20/hr to give private english lessons to doctors and execs even though they all thought i was from india lol...)

I'm bitter as hell...can't you tell?
no one wants to take any steps backwards...and because of that I have to move on!

[desperad0stl]

what we really need in this town is a progressive mayor and progressive investors to come into the city and change things around...what that also requires is an open minded populace that isnt so afraid of change which is my biggest gripe with this city.

STL was the 2nd busiest port and 4th largest city...we lost a lot of industries and a lot of business in this city...someone needs to push for more industries and allow more traffic to flow on the river...distribution, updated rail and road etc...STL is so far behind and if someone could make STL more attractive for outside businesses or better yet homegrown businesses then this place could be great in the future as it was in the past.

The population keeps voting NO on anything that is progressive that needs to change.
We also need more politically active people in this town which is why even in the poorest neighborhoods in Chicago and NYC, the streets are clean and the neighborhoods look great and maintained.

I'm far too young so I can't run for office

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by desperad0stl

which is why even in the poorest neighborhoods in Chicago and NYC, the streets are clean and the neighborhoods look great and maintained.

Hahahahahahaha. Spoken like someone who's never left the Mag Mile in Chicago. This is so painfully untrue.

[desperad0stl]

wahahaha my mother lived in cicero which is an ok neighborhood...
We have this convo constantly...i know some lobbyists in chicago, one of the directors of cook county...hell i even met barack when he was a state senator..i last saw him about a month before he announced his presidential bid....
If you compare St. Louis and Chicago, Chicago has made tons of progress since the 80s...if you look at Chicago then and look at Chicago now there is a huge difference...theres not trash layin around on the south side **** is reasonably maintained...head up to north stl and the **** still looks bombed out...
i dont hang around the mag mile son. I dont consider myself a tourist when i go to chicago im stayin with friends in Bucktown or Lakeview. If im feelin desperate ill stay at the Ohio House downtown.

[aragx6]

Cicero isn't even in the city, sot that's a rather illogical argument.

And if you don't think St. Louis has made a ton of progress since the 80s then you OBVIOUSLY either
a. are blinded either physically or by your own personal biases
or b. you don't really live here.

[desperad0stl]

a. I've lived here most of my life.
b. I have family in these bombed out areas...R.I.P. but my own cousin was shot and killed on the north side of st. Louis...i know these neighborhoods
c. St. Louis has made progress but is still way behind...Chicago made a giant leap but st. louis still hasnt crossed the hurdle.
d. Cicero is not the city but was my launching point into the city...its very close.
e. I have spent a lot of time in the ****ty neighborhoods...I am content with walking through the roughest Chicago neighborhoods and the roughest St. Louis neighborhoods.

Much of chicago looked bombed out but they made a huge turn around on that city...St. Louis still has most of North St Louis to tackle...do you hang around there much?
The south side is pretty divided...many areas are very nice but some areas still have some catching up to do...
Don't even get started on the east side.

http://thegroundfloor.typepad.com/the_ground_floor/2007/07/urban-crisis-or.html (broken link)

[aragx6]

Well "the east side" isn't St. Louis. It's not even Missouri, I fear as St. Louisans there is very little effect we can have there.

As for Chicago - I think you ought spend more time on the west side -- it has, to an even greater extent than North St. Louis -- that bombed out feel you describe.

A photo for you: http://www.chicagoclout.com/Chicago%...ng%20Slump.jpg

Chicago's war-torn West side is bigger than THE WHOLE of St. Louis.