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nevertheless, our brains have become so institutionalized to a point where we now can't think of education delivered outside a 1000 student, prison like, monument to boredom! i believe that delinquent kids are the result of our public schools not in spite of them. if you were forced to make arrangemnts for your own childcare and your kids kept misbehaving at the place you arranged, to a point where the carer/teacher/aunt quit, parents would have a vested interest in dealing with bad behaviour. that is not the case today
How is a poor, unemployed drug addict of a parent going to be able to make such arrangements? And if/when there are instances of the parent not being able to hold up their end of the bargain, then what? Say to the kids "sorry, kids, your parents are incompetent druggies who didn't hold up their end of the bargain. You are officially and certifiably screwed. Best of luck to you". Myopic libertarians and conservatives tend to think this way. That's IF they ever actually consider the perspective of kids like that in the first place...
when you say this to people here, they look at you like you have 3 heads. in reality, low cost private is working in places where what people receive here in welfare would be considered rich! places like nigeria, zimbabwe, china, india, pakistan etc. many of the poor have looked at the product of the public school system and opted for something else.
How is any of this supposed to account for the fact that millions of people being forced to attend school don't want to be there in the first place?
the parents pay. so what's the big difference? first off, these are poor people who make sacrifices for their kids to avoid govt schools. that alone takes care of most of the discipline issues. secondly, the parents have much greater input in what and how their kids are taight. teachers are retained on merit alone
Parents pay? What if they have no money? If they have limited money, and the school is for profit, how much is the staff payed? Peanuts? What kind of staff do you think will be interested in working in a high-pressure, low-pay environment? LMAO
I'm not signing up. My kids have developed this nasty habit of eating every day.
Personally, I'm giving up. If I'm not valued by society, society can have this job. I'm going to miss it though. It's been fun. Just not fun enough to accept being disrespected, a public scape goat AND work long hours for low wages.
It's funny, they say you don't know what you have until it's gone. That's really true. I really miss being respected for what I do. THAT is worth it's weight in gold. Engineering pay, benefits and retirement aside, just being respected again is worth going back into engineeering. I can go back to things that matter too like the inner city youth engineering program I used to work with. Unfortunately, that is the experience that led me to teaching. I didn't realize that the respect the kids and their parents had for me wasn't because I was teaching their kids but because I was an engineer. I figure I can do First Robotics and the Electric Car Challenge (do they still do this one?) and scratch the itch to teach.
But, wait, ALL students are entitled to attend schools with qualified, dedicated teachers teaching them. So, like, you're not allowed to leave the profession. And stuff.
They don't. They pick who they want to attend their schools, so the schools tend to be front loaded with high achievers.
Teachers who can't get jobs in public schools for whatever reason resort to private schools until there is an opening in public ed since the pay in private schools is absolutely terrible.
It has nothing to do with how "good" private schools are.
It is impossible to generalize in this way. I have known several private school teachers, both through the school my children attended and through other social connections.
Every single private school teacher I have known was highly qualified and very experienced, most holding advanced degrees. Many of them left teaching positions at public schools and willingly took a pay cut to teach in private schools so that they had smaller class sizes, freedom to teach in their own way, and no pressure to "teach to the test" because they don't have to administer standardized state tests.
For the most part they did have spouses with good paying jobs in order to make up for the lower pay but what I saw were teachers who considered the pay decrease to be worth it for them in order to be able to teach in schools that fit with their teaching philosophies and teaching styles.
It is impossible to generalize in this way. I have known several private school teachers, both through the school my children attended and through other social connections.
Every single private school teacher I have known was highly qualified and very experienced, most holding advanced degrees. Many of them left teaching positions at public schools and willingly took a pay cut to teach in private schools so that they had smaller class sizes, freedom to teach in their own way, and no pressure to "teach to the test" because they don't have to administer standardized state tests.
For the most part they did have spouses with good paying jobs in order to make up for the lower pay but what I saw were teachers who considered the pay decrease to be worth it for them in order to be able to teach in schools that fit with their teaching philosophies and teaching styles.
The first part of the last paragraph is vital. If you're not married to a sugar daddy/momma, it changes the equation quite a bit.
The first part of the last paragraph is vital. If you're not married to a sugar daddy/momma, it changes the equation quite a bit.
Well, I would say that "sugar daddy" or "sugar mama" is quite an exaggeration here.
The private school teachers I know/knew; one was married to a public school teacher. Another was married to an attorney, but she (the atty) had a government job and was low-paid as far as attorneys go, plus they had four little kids and student loans galore. Another was an empty-nester whose wife was retired and they lived in a small home, another was a single mom with one kid.
None of them were starving or doing without, those who didn't have spouses with good incomes were often frugal people in general who chose a more simple lifestyle that reflected lower pay.
how do private schools attract better teachers and get better results?
I taught at public schools but my kids attend private schools.
This is a complex issue. Teacher pay is a component of schools that perform well, but I would say it is not the most important issue. Of course teachers are employees and they work for wages. But like any other group of employees money is not the only factor in their choice of employment.
Many teachers at my kids school teach at private schools so that their own kids can attend at a lower price (nearly free). The value of tuition received is far greater than the differential in pay between public and private schools. Tuition is around $18K per year while the pay differential is quite a bit smaller.
Private schools have the advantage of being able to choose their students. Pubic schools cannot do that. They must take whomever lives in the zone. That is a huge advantage. While private schools do not want to throw kids out (their parents do pay tuition) they can throw out those few kids that are the most disruptive. This advantage cannot be eliminated simply by paying public school teacher more money.
Most private schools do not have to rigidly adhere to the state's mandated curriculum. That is an advantage to teachers who are creative. You will always find some teachers who are willing to work for a bit less money in return for what they consider better working conditions. There are always those who need to make more money. That doesn't mean they are bad teachers, just that they need more money.
Parents who spend their own money to send their children to private schools are more invested in their children than public school parents. While there are fabulous parents in the pubic school system (I had some GREAT parents when I taught chorus) there are a larger number of involved parents in private schools. There is no amount of money that will change that.
There is little poverty in private schools. Although there are kids on scholarship, most of those kids are not living in crippling poverty. Public schools have to deal with that issue. Private schools generally do not. Not all private school kids are rich, but few of them are truly poor.
While teacher pay is an element in attracting better quality teachers there are other factors that are more important. The performance of public schools has many issues.
Simple. Private schools put high expectations for their teachers and since they are not unionized the teachers know if they don't get results then they are hitting the unemployment line. That is not the case for public schools. Public school teachers are pretty much guaranteed a job for life assuming you don't rape a student or something. Teaching ability is a non-factor for public schools. Plus its not like the students have a choice to go to another school if the teachers at that school sucks, so why bother trying to meet the high expectations.
With private school if the teacher/school sucks then the parents can take their student & their money somewhere else. That's a pretty big incentive to do a good job.
I realize this is an old post. But the bolded is all kinds of WRONG!
I taught at public schools but my kids attend private schools.
This is a complex issue. Teacher pay is a component of schools that perform well, but I would say it is not the most important issue. Of course teachers are employees and they work for wages. But like any other group of employees money is not the only factor in their choice of employment.
Many teachers at my kids school teach at private schools so that their own kids can attend at a lower price (nearly free). The value of tuition received is far greater than the differential in pay between public and private schools. Tuition is around $18K per year while the pay differential is quite a bit smaller.
Private schools have the advantage of being able to choose their students. Pubic schools cannot do that. They must take whomever lives in the zone. That is a huge advantage. While private schools do not want to throw kids out (their parents do pay tuition) they can throw out those few kids that are the most disruptive. This advantage cannot be eliminated simply by paying public school teacher more money.
Most private schools do not have to rigidly adhere to the state's mandated curriculum. That is an advantage to teachers who are creative. You will always find some teachers who are willing to work for a bit less money in return for what they consider better working conditions. There are always those who need to make more money. That doesn't mean they are bad teachers, just that they need more money.
Parents who spend their own money to send their children to private schools are more invested in their children than public school parents. While there are fabulous parents in the pubic school system (I had some GREAT parents when I taught chorus) there are a larger number of involved parents in private schools. There is no amount of money that will change that.
There is little poverty in private schools. Although there are kids on scholarship, most of those kids are not living in crippling poverty. Public schools have to deal with that issue. Private schools generally do not. Not all private school kids are rich, but few of them are truly poor.
While teacher pay is an element in attracting better quality teachers there are other factors that are more important. The performance of public schools has many issues.
All valid points. But, anybody notice what is missing? There is no mention of how to make classrooms in public, inner-city classrooms places of academic success. The criticisms of said public schools still loom large, of course. But, we have no solutions for them. We only have a way out for teachers and students wanting to work/study in a better environment. The crummy environments in the public schools live on. And so do the criticisms of those public schools from those working outside public education. It's pretty sad.
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