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Why don't you spend a week in our world and you can see for yourself how much it is like all of these other ways of making a living? Ivory has worked in both worlds; I think she knows a little more than you do about the difference.
Why don't you spend some time in the world outside of education and see what it is like there?
PS I have over 36 1/2 years in education and do know and have listened to whining all of them.
By this logic, we should pay doctors by how many patients recover or survive. One year most of a doctor's patients respond well to treatment; he/she gets a bonus. The next year, though no fault of his/her own, they find themselves treating many patients who were terminally ill...so they must not have been a very good doctor or they wouldn't get paid as much.
Now we wouldn't want doctors or patients have to face life's realities, would we? After all, doctors receive their salaries mainly from the medical insurance of others' efforts and income. Now let's go out and raise insurance premiums so we all can get a raise!
Do I really believe this? Of course not. If someone proposed such an argument for compensation of doctors, the proposal would get laughed out of existance on its first reading. But you say that such a model is very reasonable for teachers.
The students you work with aren't "market forces" that directly produce or do not produce income. Most teachers do the best we can with the hand we're dealt, and to have our efforts written off this way is insulting. As a veteran teacher, I take great offense at the way my profession is treated by asinine arguments like this.
Have you done any research on how doctors working for HMO's get compensated and the bonus and performance objectives they have? Have you? Do they all get paid the same based on experience and time with the HMO and education level? Are there performance objectives with compensation awarded as a result? I wonder?
Lurkers welcome to the world of the teachers lounge where whining about salary and your children are often the topic of the day. Wouldn't life be great for teachers if the union could set the tax rate and pick which children could come to school.
Please the salary for a teacher in your district on step 15 with full certification so readers can compare your compensation with theirs.
I'm not sure you've read the whole story...I believe that IvoryTickler works in a charter school where they're allowed to circumvent the contract and pay teachers less than scale.
I'm curious, have your 36 1/2 years all been in the classroom?
Why don't you spend some time in the world outside of education and see what it is like there?
PS I have over 36 1/2 years in education and do know and have listened to whining all of them.
'I have a very rewarding career and I'm 3 years from qualifying for retirement....I'd like to see what it's like working a non-teaching job, but our retirement system makes it almost impossible to do so once you've reached a certain point.
I do have a job every summer for two weeks after school is out grading AP exams. My work day goes from 8 to 5....go in at 8 (not at 6:30 to prepare lessons for a 7:25 start), read papers, grade them, help supervise and mentor first-year graders....15 min break at mid-morning.....1 hour for lunch.....another 15 min break at mid-afternoon......leave the desk at 5 PM and don't have to take anything home to work on for tomorrow. All training is done as a part of our work day. Easiest job I ever had, although we work very hard and don't have any down time other than our breaks and lunch.
I'm not sure you've read the whole story...I believe that IvoryTickler works in a charter school where they're allowed to circumvent the contract and pay teachers less than scale.
I'm curious, have your 36 1/2 years all been in the classroom?
Nah a lot of it administrative. Charter schools are not circumventing the scale they are working on a different delivery model. There model is by intent a different application of tax dollars to try to bring more bang to the buck. Right now we WASTE so much of what good people work hard to make on failed efforts.
'I have a very rewarding career and I'm 3 years from qualifying for retirement....I'd like to see what it's like working a non-teaching job, but our retirement system makes it almost impossible to do so once you've reached a certain point.
I do have a job every summer for two weeks after school is out grading AP exams. My work day goes from 8 to 5....go in at 8 (not at 6:30 to prepare lessons for a 7:25 start), read papers, grade them, help supervise and mentor first-year graders....15 min break at mid-morning.....1 hour for lunch.....another 15 min break at mid-afternoon......leave the desk at 5 PM and don't have to take anything home to work on for tomorrow. All training is done as a part of our work day. Easiest job I ever had, although we work very hard and don't have any down time other than our breaks and lunch.
Beat you to it my friend I retired at 59 1/2. Hopefully you are still young and can appreciate that you will be retiring when many of your neighbors aren't.
Beat you to it my friend I retired at 59 1/2. Hopefully you are still young and can appreciate that you will be retiring when many of your neighbors aren't.
I'm 55 and can retire when I'm 58. I may teach in a different state, I still love working with teens and I'm not sick of teaching so much as I'm sick of working in our district...where we don't have a break longer than a 3-day weekend from January to the first week of June.
I'm not sure you've read the whole story...I believe that IvoryTickler works in a charter school where they're allowed to circumvent the contract and pay teachers less than scale.
I'm curious, have your 36 1/2 years all been in the classroom?
Yes, charters have a different wage structure. Basically, what you hire in at is what you retire at. The only raises we get are 2% COL raises every other year IF the state gives the school extra funds. The state cut funds this year so we're expecting a pay cut. They've already cut the contribution to our 401K and decimated our benefits (seriously. I'm talking it costing a family of 4 several hundred more a month to buy insurance through the school now if you want semi lousy insurance vs. insurance no doctor wants to take (that one is "free" but comes with a $7000 deductible if you don't follow your program towards your weight goal, your cholesterol goal, your BP goal or whatever other goals their doctors set for you. It's a $3000 deductible if you do meet your goals. Kind of Nazi health insurance if you ask me. I've never had to meet goals to keep my insurance before.)
While I would agree that many of the teachers in district, here, are over paid and the wage structure should be changed, this is rediculous. Unfortunately, it's the wave of the future. Districts are closing schools and enrollment in charters is up. As a parent, I thought charters were a better way but when this economy turns around, I predict they'll lose teachers hand over fist because of a very unfair wage situation. It's frustrating.
Yes, charters have a different wage structure. Basically, what you hire in at is what you retire at. The only raises we get are 2% COL raises every other year IF the state gives the school extra funds. The state cut funds this year so we're expecting a pay cut. They've already cut the contribution to our 401K and decimated our benefits (seriously. I'm talking it costing a family of 4 several hundred more a month to buy insurance through the school now if you want semi lousy insurance vs. insurance no doctor wants to take (that one is "free" but comes with a $7000 deductible if you don't follow your program towards your weight goal, your cholesterol goal, your BP goal or whatever other goals their doctors set for you. It's a $3000 deductible if you do meet your goals. Kind of Nazi health insurance if you ask me. I've never had to meet goals to keep my insurance before.)
While I would agree that many of the teachers in district, here, are over paid and the wage structure should be changed, this is rediculous. Unfortunately, it's the wave of the future. Districts are closing schools and enrollment in charters is up. As a parent, I thought charters were a better way but when this economy turns around, I predict they'll lose teachers hand over fist because of a very unfair wage situation. It's frustrating.
....and that's why we need unions. If school boards and administrations (no offense intended, PTuborg, but it's true), treated and paid teachers as professionals rather than as expendable hired hands, we probably never would have needed unions.
....and that's why we need unions. If school boards and administrations (no offense intended, PTuborg, but it's true), treated and paid teachers as professionals rather than as expendable hired hands, we probably never would have needed unions.
I have to agree. I never intended to work for a union but I'm now seeing it's a choice between subsistence level wages and being over worked or a union. You are correct. Teachers are not treated like professionals. There is a belief that anyone can do this job and you should just hire the least expensive person you can get.
There is no doubt in my mind that I'm viewed as a cheap and easily replaced commodity by the school I worked for last year. I doubt it will be any better at the next charter over but I am hoping to find work in a different charter next year. I'll never find work in a district. When the state grandfathered the DX certification (allows the teacher to teach any science class grades 6-12) they created a golden ticket. Without a real shortage of science teachers, people like me who are subject certified aren't needed or wanted. What irks me is the state says I"m the more qualified teacher but because I can't get a DX, I can't get an interview in a district let alone a job. So I'm looking for anything else. I'll take what I can get until I can get back into engineering. I might be able to find something a little better in a year or two but I can never do much better than I am now. If I were 22 and fresh out of college, I'd just wait for the DX holders to retire but I'm not. This is a career change for me. I have to settle in somewhere with a retirement plan within a couple of years or get out of the profession. From what I can see, it will be easier to get out.
It's frustrating. I have industrial experience, I can explain where this stuff goes, I understand what's needed to succeed outside of academia, I'm a subject matter expert and I can even use my contacts to help kids get summer co-ops but I'm not valuable as a teacher. It's time to accept that and move on. It's just frustrating to watch your dreams die. On the bright side, I get to make a lot of money in engineering. I just wanted what I did to be more than about what I make. Unfortunately, I do need to make a livable wage no matter what I do and that is turning out to be the show stopper.
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