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I never had any problems in Toronto as a tourist but I have heard from the locals that the dating scene is bad for singles in their 20s. I find that hard to believe in a city as big and diverse as Toronto but i have heard the same about SF, Seattle and a few other big US cities like Boston.
Thing is you're always going to hear that stuff. There was a guy in here who was constantly posting about how hard it was to date in T.O. So a look at his post history showed that he said the exact same thing about Atlanta in 2011 lol.. Another thing is, the people who aren't getting dates and who aren't making friends and socializing are the squeaky wheels here - the quiet majority don't have a problem
As you said, you hear about this stuff about other cities (I have too) but the guy who complained about T.O in these very forums last year and also complained about Atlanta in the same way 6 years ago just to me underscores that sometimes people with these problems have them in multiple places... For whatever reason(s), they have a difficult time sussing out the local environment and adapting engaging in it and it is the same problem for them place to place. So how much is it the place and how much is it a minority of people who complain and surround themselves with like individuals to reinforce that negativity..
I think the original point (from the first post in this thread , which keeps getting revived since 2013) was that the OP and many who agreed with OP had lived in other places and were able to make friends a lot more easily than in Toronto, which is a point all the replies with opposing view seem to ignore to address , while the fact that for the last 5 freaking years it keeps getting brought back pretty much tells people this is not just a small group’s opinion - and apparently this topic has been discussed in many other threads, like this one from even earlier https://www.city-data.com/forum/toron...e-friends.html
And the sentiment is almost exactly the same
local people can deny it all they want, but it doesn’t change how other people’s feeling about what they are experiencing, there is probably no right or wrong, just different opinions and different perspectives ... but I can understand how and why some local people get defensive about it - I talk crap about my hometown all the time but I can’t stand outsiders say anything negative about it lol
YES it is a problem for some people and yes their feelings are their feelings and yes, their feelings are valid.... for them. I don't think anyone would counter that. What I would counter however is that the problem is widespread and impacting the majority and it is not. Some of those people in the minority who are having a rough time even complained about it in these forums about other cities. So we have an established group of people finding the same problems in one place as they did the last and we 'locals' are supposed to just acquiesce that there is a widespread dating/social problem in T.O. That is the credibility of the people posting in here and I think that is the case for you as well. I also don't find you people particularly engaging on a personal level. You just spew out a narrative and that is it - if it doesn't fit your narrative, the person you are talking to is persona non-grata.
I believe you have admitted that you have a hard time socializing. You don't drink and you don't feel comfortable in social settings. This is Toronto's problem and HOW exactly. Like seriously dude, do you not go out in this city - not just your little comfortable space in DT Toronto or wherever you are now but just go around the entire city. Walk in malls, go to the theatre, go to IKEA and LOOK at the people there. Tell me you don't see people who are clearly couples either dating, bf/gf or bf/bf gf/gf or who are omg actually married. Do people just get married or do they date and things move from there. Clearly they don't have a problem but sure - some people have a difficult time. Heck, it's hard to find the right person for anyone anywhere. Look to Hollywood and Americana and you'll find endless movies on how difficult it is to find the right person (the point of dating).
Those people complaining endlessly about the dating scene in Toronto are pretty vocal about that in these forums. They have created their little online negative group therapy ecosystem on forums like this and elsewhere. They have no problem levelling generalized and widespread commentary on how bad the social scene is in Toronto, yet It is pretty apparent to anyone actually living here that most people socialize/date/get married etc. Hey if it helps them/you than I welcome it. I'll counter it because I think it is largely nonsensical and defies credulity but welcome it I do. It is fun engaging you people actually. With your particular group I relish being the Yin to your Yang. I mean, I haven't the foggiest idea what to do about the 'problems' you people are going through. You know why, because I've tried to provide advice and guidance and got the door slammed in my face. I mean you seem to have no problem identifying a problem yet introduce no solution either for the city or for yourselves and when people try to help you - its a snarky response, persona non grata. Even if you are correct I think you're way off that it is the majority for reasons I've posted but what exactly is supposed to be done about it!!? Problems observed/identified - solutions just well - not provided. I just have a question - who are antisocial and who contribute to the dating/socialization frostiness in Toronto - us locals who are now the minority in this city - or the immigrants/migrants from other places abroad and domestic who form the majority of the city
Please answer for me
As for you personally - you are EVERY bit as snarky as I am and you know it and you're certainly not a china doll. You might be in your l'il cocoon there but inside we both know who we are dealing with. One day I hope you'll translate that online snarky into real life snarky. Once that happens buddy - you'll have less of a difficult time here. I think pretty much anywhere if you aren't open to at least having a beer - it shuts down a lot of doors.
YES it is a problem for some people and yes their feelings are their feelings and yes, their feelings are valid.... for them. I don't think anyone would counter that. What I would counter however is that the problem is widespread and impacting the majority and it is not. Some of those people in the minority who are having a rough time even complained about it in these forums about other cities. So we have an established group of people finding the same problems in one place as they did the last and we 'locals' are supposed to just acquiesce that there is a widespread dating/social problem in T.O. That is the credibility of the people posting in here and I think that is the case for you as well. I also don't find you people particularly engaging on a personal level. You just spew out a narrative and that is it - if it doesn't fit your narrative, the person you are talking to is persona non-grata.
I believe you have admitted that you have a hard time socializing. You don't drink and you don't feel comfortable in social settings. This is Toronto's problem and HOW exactly. Like seriously dude, do you not go out in this city - not just your little comfortable space in DT Toronto or wherever you are now but just go around the entire city. Walk in malls, go to the theatre, go to IKEA and LOOK at the people there. Tell me you don't see people who are clearly couples either dating, bf/gf or bf/bf gf/gf or who are omg actually married. Do people just get married or do they date and things move from there. Clearly they don't have a problem but sure - some people have a difficult time. Heck, it's hard to find the right person for anyone anywhere. Look to Hollywood and Americana and you'll find endless movies on how difficult it is to find the right person (the point of dating).
Those people complaining endlessly about the dating scene in Toronto are pretty vocal about that in these forums. They have created their little online negative group therapy ecosystem on forums like this and elsewhere. They have no problem levelling generalized and widespread commentary on how bad the social scene is in Toronto, yet It is pretty apparent to anyone actually living here that most people socialize/date/get married etc. Hey if it helps them/you than I welcome it. I'll counter it because I think it is largely nonsensical and defies credulity but welcome it I do. It is fun engaging you people actually. With your particular group I relish being the Yin to your Yang. I mean, I haven't the foggiest idea what to do about the 'problems' you people are going through. You know why, because I've tried to provide advice and guidance and got the door slammed in my face. I mean you seem to have no problem identifying a problem yet introduce no solution either for the city or for yourselves and when people try to help you - its a snarky response, persona non grata. Even if you are correct I think you're way off that it is the majority for reasons I've posted but what exactly is supposed to be done about it!!? Problems observed/identified - solutions just well - not provided. I just have a question - who are antisocial and who contribute to the dating/socialization frostiness in Toronto - us locals who are now the minority in this city - or the immigrants/migrants from other places abroad and domestic who form the majority of the city
Please answer for me
As for you personally - you are EVERY bit as snarky as I am and you know it and you're certainly not a china doll. You might be in your l'il cocoon there but inside we both know who we are dealing with. One day I hope you'll translate that online snarky into real life snarky. Once that happens buddy - you'll have less of a difficult time here. I think pretty much anywhere if you aren't open to at least having a beer - it shuts down a lot of doors.
I read all you wrote here but it seems like you didn’t even read my first paragraph before passing judgment , as usual, that you still can’t address this : the original point (from the first post in this thread , which keeps getting revived since 2013) was that the OP and many who agreed with OP had lived in other places and were able to make friends a lot more easily than in Toronto, which is a point all the replies with opposing view seem to ignore to address ... but keep going and happy spinning .
And please be aware : I don’t have much problem with it myself - i am fine not having tons of “friend” as long as I have a closed group of a few I am happy - I was just saying some people have this opinion that they are entitled to, and shouldn’t be blamed for it - but apparently I am one those “you people “ now ... and why is it so hard to admit something that may not have any solution? People are different and the culture of Toronto may just be like this , but life goes on . Just like Toronto’s subway that has been this way for probably decades, have there been any solutions proposed ? And had anything been done?
Also it seems like you are out of ammunition that you could use to attack me: ridiculing me for not open to drinking? Lol
As to being snarky- i never denied it , and you probably noticed I only do that to two people in this forum , for reason that’s obvious to me - and I hope obvious to you too lol
Last edited by moveagain; 04-17-2018 at 05:59 AM..
I read all you wrote here but it seems like you didn’t even read my first paragraph before passing judgment , as usual, that you still can’t address this : the original point (from the first post in this thread , which keeps getting revived since 2013) was that the OP and many who agreed with OP had lived in other places and were able to make friends a lot more easily than in Toronto, which is a point all the replies with opposing view seem to ignore to address ... but keep going and happy spinning .
Well I would agree the thread is all over the place. I mean from 2013 many, many of the players involved have long gone. You know the people who come in and out.. At least you stuck around and make an argument and stick with it. I credit you for that. Think about it though, some people will just sort of create an account - post a jab - regardless of which city or issues whatever and then disappear or get dumped by CD as a troll. We don't know who these people are. Regardless of what side of the discussion you are on in this, I credit anyone who is actually a credible person and that includes you.
As for the making friends part - you know, i'll use the same argument, you could probably find examples of people saying the same crap in other comparable cities. Notice I said comparable as I have eluded to the fact that in some places the social dynamic may be more conducive to making friends but that is more an eastern world vs western world thing. I don't know about long term meaningful friends but casual stuff I can see it though it should in no way be a barrier to people in Toronto or any other society that is more individualistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moveagain
And please be aware : I don’t have much problem with it myself - i am fine not having tons of “friend” as long as I have a closed group of a few I am happy - I was just saying some people have this opinion that they are entitled to, and shouldn’t be blamed for it - but apparently I am one those “you people “ now ... and why is it so hard to admit something that may not have any solution? People are different and the culture of Toronto may just be like this , but life goes on . Just like Toronto’s subway that has been this way for probably decades, have there been any solutions proposed ? And had anything been done?
Hey I salute you for being happy with your situation. If you are than that is the main thing. I have many acquaintances and friends and not just in T.O - around the world but I only have a few 'real' friends and those are the people who matter - like family. I called you - you people because you really seem to have latched onto a group who has questionable credulity. The one's I mentioned earlier and they may be 'creating' an impression of a culture in Toronto that is exaggerated and not entirely true and my impression of you, rightly or wrongly is that you latch onto that and may not be looking at it from a bigger lens.
If anything and what you are saying is true, it seems like this is a good place for you. Toronto is like that though, it is generally considered a welcoming place for everyone and i'll posit, including those who are sociable and social butterflies. You probably aren't into it - but the city still has a sizable nightclub scene and this scene is well rooted in the city for decades. It lost some of its former glory but it is still there. So, you attract who you are regardless of place. As for the Toronto subway - it's changing dude. Were you away from the city when the new extension took place that extends the Yonge line to Vaughan? The Crosstown is coming soon too and it'll function largely like a Subway and will be fully integrated with existing lines. It is essentially a new and substantial line - so yes it is changing and so is Toronto...
Quote:
Originally Posted by moveagain
Also it seems like you are out of ammunition that you could use to attack me: ridiculing me for not open to drinking? Lol
As to being snarky- i never denied it , and you probably noticed I only do that to two people in this forum , for reason that’s obvious to me - and I hope obvious to you too lol
you're such a drama queen using words like 'attack' and 'ridicule' are you really a China doll - a Swarovski Cristal or what lol.. I think you can take it. I just made a point that if you drank you'd be going to venues that may be more conducive to making friends and it may change your perspective a bit on the city and its social dynamic. Let's face it, alcohol is an ice breaker and makes people looser - liquid courage too. That is the case anywhere.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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moveagain -- I feel you on the "not drinking" part. I don't drink either. I mean, I'll have a glass of champagne (well, really, a quarter of a glass is plenty) to celebrate something but I could easily live the rest of my life without alcohol. Alcohol just isn't my "thing" -- I never developed a taste for it. When others have wine at dinner, I'll likely stick with water (or Diet Coke if I'm in the mood for sweet and fizzy). But if someone suggests going to a bar? I'll very likely pass on that outing. If I really want to go -- like if there's live music playing that I like there -- I'll probably have a non-alcoholic beverage, but that's not the case 99 out of 100 times; there's usually no compelling reason for me to want to go. As fusion2 said, the drinking scene is more conducive to meeting and befriending people, leaving us non-drinkers to take the more difficult path.
Well I would agree the thread is all over the place. I mean from 2013 many, many of the players involved have long gone. You know the people who come in and out.. At least you stuck around and make an argument and stick with it. I credit you for that. Think about it though, some people will just sort of create an account - post a jab - regardless of which city or issues whatever and then disappear or get dumped by CD as a troll. We don't know who these people are. Regardless of what side of the discussion you are on in this, I credit anyone who is actually a credible person and that includes you.
As for the making friends part - you know, i'll use the same argument, you could probably find examples of people saying the same crap in other comparable cities. Notice I said comparable as I have eluded to the fact that in some places the social dynamic may be more conducive to making friends but that is more an eastern world vs western world thing. I don't know about long term meaningful friends but casual stuff I can see it though it should in no way be a barrier to people in Toronto or any other society that is more individualistic.
Hey I salute you for being happy with your situation. If you are than that is the main thing. I have many acquaintances and friends and not just in T.O - around the world but I only have a few 'real' friends and those are the people who matter - like family. I called you - you people because you really seem to have latched onto a group who has questionable credulity. The one's I mentioned earlier and they may be 'creating' an impression of a culture in Toronto that is exaggerated and not entirely true and my impression of you, rightly or wrongly is that you latch onto that and may not be looking at it from a bigger lens.
If anything and what you are saying is true, it seems like this is a good place for you. Toronto is like that though, it is generally considered a welcoming place for everyone and i'll posit, including those who are sociable and social butterflies. You probably aren't into it - but the city still has a sizable nightclub scene and this scene is well rooted in the city for decades. It lost some of its former glory but it is still there. So, you attract who you are regardless of place. As for the Toronto subway - it's changing dude. Were you away from the city when the new extension took place that extends the Yonge line to Vaughan? The Crosstown is coming soon too and it'll function largely like a Subway and will be fully integrated with existing lines. It is essentially a new and substantial line - so yes it is changing and so is Toronto...
you're such a drama queen using words like 'attack' and 'ridicule' are you really a China doll - a Swarovski Cristal or what lol.. I think you can take it. I just made a point that if you drank you'd be going to venues that may be more conducive to making friends and it may change your perspective a bit on the city and its social dynamic. Let's face it, alcohol is an ice breaker and makes people looser - liquid courage too. That is the case anywhere.
Of course I can take it - I just find it funny when you ran out of excuses you had to resort to that - and I am not sure what’s your point about “if what I said was true then Toronto is good for me”... what does it have anything to do with this? I already stated clearly I am ok with it and I was only pointing out the observation and conformation I got over the years from people around me with regard to this topic ... much like our discussions about noise in downtown- I was merely talking about being considerate about elderly and kids while you were too busy jumping on blaming people for having low threshold
And again, you still can’t address why those people who had no problem making friends/socializing in other places would have a hard time doing the same in Toronto- it’s like I deliberately formatted the question perfectly that it had to fall right into your blind spot every single time LoL — I am pretty sure you still won’t see it in this one - and you had to make the assumption those are the same people who have th same complaints any where they go , and here is the part you will skip again: they didn’t have this problem anywhere else , they only experienced it in Toronto and that’s why they were venting - I wish I could just stand next to you and read that out loud .... unless you happen to be selectively deaf when it comes to that part
And lastly , I am not looking for any solution here so please stop offering (appreciate the effort but no, thanks - I have said it many times i am not complaining about the situation and just allowing acceptance of an opinion - since when it’s such a sin?
Last edited by moveagain; 04-17-2018 at 08:43 AM..
Of course I can take it - I just find it funny when you ran out of excuses you had to resort to that - and I am not sure what’s your point about “if what I said was true then Toronto is good for me”... what does it have anything to do with this? I already stated clearly I am ok with it and I was only pointing out the observation and conformation I got over the years from people around me with regard to this topic ... much like our discussions about noise in downtown- I was merely talking about being considerate about elderly and kids while you were too busy jumping on blaming people for having low threshold
And again, you still can’t address why those people who had no problem making friends/socializing in other places would have a hard time doing the same in Toronto- it’s like I deliberately formatted the question perfectly that it had to fall right into your blind spot every single time LoL — I am pretty sure you still won’t see it in this one - and you had to make the assumption those are the same people who have th same complaints any where they go , and here is the part you will skip again: they didn’t have this problem anywhere else , they only experienced it in Toronto and that’s why they were venting - I wish I could just stand next to you and read that out loud .... unless you happen to be selectively deaf when it comes to that part
And lastly , I am not looking for any solution here so please stop offering (appreciate the effort but no, thanks - I have said it many times i am not complaining about the situation and just allowing acceptance of an opinion - since when it’s such a sin?
I don't get what you mean by me 'running out of excuses' - I really don't... Just like when you use the word spinning. It's just fluff and hyperbole. As for your question and blind spot sentence. I think I've elaborated on that quite a bit and not being evasive at all. There is no single answer. For example, the Atlanta dude said years ago that Atlanta sucked for dating/socializing and that Toronto was where it was at. A few years later and after divorcing his Toronto wife - Toronto sucks. So, people have a variety of reasons for posting what they do. Often, people who have a gripe are the one's making noise and the reasons aren't entirely objective.
Is that to say some people don't have a harder time socializing in Toronto than other places - sure and I know they exist but the reasons are also varied. Can depend on their mood, where they went, experiences that day or week etc. We simply don't know all the reasons why but we shouldn't assume they are the majority. You can find the exact opposite where perhaps some people have an easier time with the social scene here vs other cities and for a variety of reasons for them. You won't hear that as much because it is very likely people with a gripe or negative experience about something are more likely to find a platform to vent. Those with no gripes are simply out living their lives. As the poster from Nashville said, he has heard the same gripes about NYC, S.F etc. It is what it is and that is why I would take what people complain about as faults to the social scenes in those cities with a grain of salt. So, I believe the majority of people who don't have trouble socializing in other comparable urban areas won't have trouble in Toronto. Concomitantly, I think the majority of those who have trouble socializing in other comparable urban areas, will still have trouble in Toronto and I've touched on the reasons why.
Fair enough about solution. You may not want to be a part of it but what I'm trying to say to the negative peeps who are complaining about T.O's social scene is presumably YOU meaning them are part of that problem. So become part of the solution. Toronto is what the collective makes it. Part of that and maybe of you being a part of the solution, is being a little less tight when people are partying for one week in June DT and making noise and you know - socializing.. I was also sort of sending out an olive branch to you in the last post I made. You sort of torpedoed that.
moveagain -- I feel you on the "not drinking" part. I don't drink either. I mean, I'll have a glass of champagne (well, really, a quarter of a glass is plenty) to celebrate something but I could easily live the rest of my life without alcohol. Alcohol just isn't my "thing" -- I never developed a taste for it. When others have wine at dinner, I'll likely stick with water (or Diet Coke if I'm in the mood for sweet and fizzy). But if someone suggests going to a bar? I'll very likely pass on that outing. If I really want to go -- like if there's live music playing that I like there -- I'll probably have a non-alcoholic beverage, but that's not the case 99 out of 100 times; there's usually no compelling reason for me to want to go. As fusion2 said, the drinking scene is more conducive to meeting and befriending people, leaving us non-drinkers to take the more difficult path.
Yeah I mean you just exclude a whole scene essentially if you don't drink. If you go to a bar or pub - sure you could order a coke but most people imbibe on an alcoholic beverage. If you are the only one not drinking among friends, you'd kinda feel like the odd wheel because everyone else is clearly getting a wee bit tanked. Same thing if you go to a nightclub - most are going to drink, dance and probably singles hoping to get laid - oh wait, its all about the music
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
Yeah I mean you just exclude a whole scene essentially if you don't drink. If you go to a bar or pub - sure you could order a coke but most people imbibe on an alcoholic beverage. If you are the only one not drinking among friends, you'd kinda feel like the odd wheel because everyone else is clearly getting a wee bit tanked. Same thing if you go to a nightclub - most are going to drink, dance and probably singles hoping to get laid - oh wait, its all about the music
Bolded part: Well, I'm high on life. Really, though, I never feel like the odd one out -- nor have I ever been made to feel that way. There are some times that I will have an alcoholic drink, though, if I'm in the mood. I just don't *need* it to have a good time. If someone doesn't drink (or go to a bar) on *principle* that's a whole other situation... or if someone judges someone for having a fourth glass of wine at dinner... that would make socializing more difficult. I find that "live and let live" is a good motto to hang my hat on.
I don't get what you mean by me 'running out of excuses' - I really don't... Just like when you use the word spinning. It's just fluff and hyperbole. As for your question and blind spot sentence. I think I've elaborated on that quite a bit and not being evasive at all. There is no single answer. For example, the Atlanta dude said years ago that Atlanta sucked for dating/socializing and that Toronto was where it was at. A few years later and after divorcing his Toronto wife - Toronto sucks. So, people have a variety of reasons for posting what they do. Often, people who have a gripe are the one's making noise and the reasons aren't entirely objective.
Is that to say some people don't have a harder time socializing in Toronto than other places - sure and I know they exist but the reasons are also varied. Can depend on their mood, where they went, experiences that day or week etc. We simply don't know all the reasons why but we shouldn't assume they are the majority. You can find the exact opposite where perhaps some people have an easier time with the social scene here vs other cities and for a variety of reasons for them. You won't hear that as much because it is very likely people with a gripe or negative experience about something are more likely to find a platform to vent. Those with no gripes are simply out living their lives. As the poster from Nashville said, he has heard the same gripes about NYC, S.F etc. It is what it is and that is why I would take what people complain about as faults to the social scenes in those cities with a grain of salt. So, I believe the majority of people who don't have trouble socializing in other comparable urban areas won't have trouble in Toronto. Concomitantly, I think the majority of those who have trouble socializing in other comparable urban areas, will still have trouble in Toronto and I've touched on the reasons why.
Fair enough about solution. You may not want to be a part of it but what I'm trying to say to the negative peeps who are complaining about T.O's social scene is presumably YOU meaning them are part of that problem. So become part of the solution. Toronto is what the collective makes it. Part of that and maybe of you being a part of the solution, is being a little less tight when people are partying for one week in June DT and making noise and you know - socializing.. I was also sort of sending out an olive branch to you in the last post I made. You sort of torpedoed that.
This is just getting funnier and funnier ... on what the grounds can you “believe the majority of people who don't have trouble socializing in other comparable urban areas won't have trouble in Toronto”? Because that’s what you like to believe ? That’s a bit convenient isn’t it? Why do you think this thread or similar threads of the same topic just won’t stop coming back ? does it happen to other places? I am sure it does , but does it happen to many other places that it gets bumped up all the time? Or maybe , by your way of thinking, Toronto just happens to attract people who want to socialize but don’t have th skill or the mood or keep going to the wrong places so they all end up to come to this forum to complain? Since you like talking about solutions, maybe stepping out of denial as the first step could be or?
Oh, by the way that paragraph finally escaped your blind spot, as painful it may have been, I am impressed, despite the fact you easily determined those people as the minority and attributed their lack of success to their own fault， almost sounds as if you actually know those people in person and what they have been through and what they do with their lives - no surprise here and I wouldn’t have expected less - coming from someone who’s been accusing others of generalizing , this just sounds hilarious
Last edited by moveagain; 04-17-2018 at 06:05 PM..
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Really, though, I never feel like the odd one out -- nor have I ever been made to feel that way. There are some times that I will have an alcoholic drink, though, if I'm in the mood. I just don't *need* it to have a good time. If someone doesn't drink (or go to a bar) on *principle* that's a whole other situation... or if someone judges someone for having a fourth glass of wine at dinner... that would make socializing more difficult. I find that "live and let live" is a good motto to hang my hat on.
