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I agree with FellowTraveler and the others with their criticisms of Torontonians. I've lived here my whole life, and I've travelled elsewhere. Everyday that I walk the streets, and make casual smiles/eyecontact with both males and females, I'm amazed by the cold stares or quickly averted eyes of my fellow humans. I've developed a thick skin. When in other cities, I note a willingness in others to make eye contact. Not in TO.
I think there's a very emotionally restricted and insecure mentality in this city. Luckily , I've lived here most of my life, so I've developed a network of friends. But I can't imagine moving here.
That's just big city life for you. Last time I checked New Yorkers aren't big on making eye contact in their subways either. I don't want to waste my time talking to somebody who might ask for change or introduce me to the gospel. I may decide to let down my guard on occasions but I've heard my share of sob stories on how they need money to buy a bus ticket home.
Wrong. I've lived in many big cities, and there are plenty with cultures of friendliness. As some others here have said, even in New York, ask the guy on the corner where Bleecker Street is and he'll probably bark some unfriendly-sounding response. But take 30 seconds to ask him what he thinks of this or that, and you may soon discover yourself in a long, interesting conversation with someone who turns out to be a very friendly person.
Wrong. I've lived in many big cities, and there are plenty with cultures of friendliness. As some others here have said, even in New York, ask the guy on the corner where Bleecker Street is and he'll probably bark some unfriendly-sounding response. But take 30 seconds to ask him what he thinks of this or that, and you may soon discover yourself in a long, interesting conversation with someone who turns out to be a very friendly person.
This is wrong. It depends on the type of person you are. I'm born and raised in TO and when I go to random places I have absolutely positively NO problem meeting new people, talking to people. It's not the big city thing, I've been to big and small cities and I have NO problem in any city. It's an individuals personality, some people I've tried to stir up a convo with just don't want to, other's are so willing, some who may not but they do maybe because you take them by surprise, in any situation.
This is wrong. It depends on the type of person you are. I'm born and raised in TO and when I go to random places I have absolutely positively NO problem meeting new people, talking to people. It's not the big city thing, I've been to big and small cities and I have NO problem in any city. It's an individuals personality, some people I've tried to stir up a convo with just don't want to, other's are so willing, some who may not but they do maybe because you take them by surprise, in any situation.
I have come to accept this theory also. The truth is that if you are struggling "too much" in any city then its you and you need to adjust your attitude as the world won't change for you. That saids there are really cool people in Toronto and there are lots of negative elements too. You just need to find your niche of people and stick to them. Thats the predominant thinking here, nobody will bat an eye at you for a second unless they sense a mutual interest e.g dating potential, job potential, shared interest etc. To some that my seems a little cold or calculating but its a big city and openning yourself up to everybody carries huge risk. I used to complain also but waaay better adjusted now. Just be confident, don't compromise who you are and you will find your niche (or it will find you). Just my 2 cents.
I don't see how people's descriptions of people from Toronto are any colder than what I have experienced in my town near London. I have a pretty menial job at a grocery store that's allowing me to pay my way through college, and I am consistently amazed at how rude people are. It's not even rudeness, it's sheer apathy and snobbery. I will be doing my job, and see that someone is at their vehicle in the lot finished with their shopping cart. I will go out of my way to walk over to them, often 100 feet, to collect their cart for them and I'll either thank them, or tell them to have a good day. I would say that 8 times out of 10, I get absolutely no response or confirmation.
They don't smile, they don't thank me, they don't return my pleasantries at all. Most of the time they don't even acknowledge that I am there, they just push their cart at me or leave it and walk away. I approach them smiling and I make sure that I sound sincere when I speak to them, and so many of them are perfect snobs. It really paints an awful picture of the average Ontario citizen. This has been my experience in a lot of cities across Southern Ontario, and even some towns.
And it gets even worse as you travel North. Especially near the Quebec border. They'll either pretend that they don't speak English when you know darn well that they do, or they'll be blunt and rude with you when you're the customer. I know all about ignorant and rude customers, and I always make sure that I am not following suit and that I am being pleasant and reasonable. It seems most people here have already made up their minds about you before you even open your mouth to speak. I have had others agree with this too. And yet most people that are 15-30 will always respond and thank me and wish me a good day as well.
The people that I work with are all great, so I really don't know what it is. I don't expect much from people, but the descriptions that you're giving of people not returning pleasantries sounds exactly the same to what I experience daily frp, strangers/customers out in the London area.
The only difference is that the people that I have met in college have been really nice and genuine people. They don't seem to be out for their own vested interests and are easy to converse with and befriend. They don't seem distant or awkward at all, at least not most of them. I'd actually say that London seems friendlier than my town of roughly 20,000.
This made me laugh, and if the Toronto folks want to show they have a sense of humor they will make this the official city slogan.
Now back to Toronto- randomly pluck a Toronto resident and chances are he or she will be the same as the randomly plucked in other cities.
I've noticed one thing about SOME Torontonians though, they try too hard and care too much about what other people think. They really want to be New York when they should just be proud of Toronto, I mean c'mon, look at the average street in NY and look at the average street in Toronto.
There is an unappealing power grab by some in Toronto that you don't see in most Canadian cities. It's actually similar to what is going on in exclusive suburbs in the US. People too concerned about status and how they are perceived. You might say an inferiority complex.
Look to places like Spain, much of Italy (not Milan though!) and even Montreal. People like where they live and don't see each other as competitors for their piece of the pie.. They couldn't care less about what others think, they like themselves and where they live, and that's enough.
Personally, I'd be very proud of Toronto if I lived there.
SOME Torontonians just need to relax and realize how good they have it.
This made me laugh, and if the Toronto folks want to show they have a sense of humor they will make this the official city slogan.
Now back to Toronto- randomly pluck a Toronto resident and chances are he or she will be the same as the randomly plucked in other cities.
I've noticed one thing about SOME Torontonians though, they try too hard and care too much about what other people think. They really want to be New York when they should just be proud of Toronto, I mean c'mon, look at the average street in NY and look at the average street in Toronto.
There is an unappealing power grab by some in Toronto that you don't see in most Canadian cities. It's actually similar to what is going on in exclusive suburbs in the US. People too concerned about status and how they are perceived. You might say an inferiority complex.
Look to places like Spain, much of Italy (not Milan though!) and even Montreal. People like where they live and don't see each other as competitors for their piece of the pie.. They couldn't care less about what others think, they like themselves and where they live, and that's enough.
Personally, I'd be very proud of Toronto if I lived there.
SOME Torontonians just need to relax and realize how good they have it.
All that analysis and you don't even live in Toronto. I agree with you though, there is nothing special about Toronto, its just one more city among the counless cities in north America. The key is friends and family and anywhere will seem friendly and feel like home.
you cannot simply describe 2.5 million people in one word. think of it this way, at a party with 20 people, each and every person could have a different personality. now imagine this on a much, much larger scale. there will be people who want to talk to you, who want to be your friend, and ones who dont want anything at all. and why would you just randomly say hi to somebody walking by you? they might give you a wierd look because it is so unexpected. it is a different story though if you are at a crosswalk waiting to cross and talk to somebody, that seems normal. then again, the persons response will be calculated according to their personality and mood that day.
Last edited by Cornerguy1; 08-07-2009 at 08:31 PM..
Reason: no need for the insults
I agree with David001. People here in Toronto do seem very insecure. NO ONE will look at each other at all. I've never seen anything like it. I've lived in different cities- large cities, and have never experienced anything like Toronto. Men don't flirt AT ALL, and the women seem to come across like unfriendly, blankity blanks...
Yesterday I was walking on Bloor near Bay St. There was a homeless man sleeping by one of the closed stores. Three men walked passing by and one of the them suddenly kicked the homeless on the side and said "wake up, man!". The other two guys simply laughed. The homeless woke up and yelled "Assh**" helplessly.
That was the meanest behavior I have seen so far since I move here. I don't see the point of humiliating a person who doesn't even have a shelter to stay in.
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I agree with you though, there is nothing special about Toronto, its just one more city among the counless cities in north America. The key is friends and family and anywhere will seem friendly and feel like home.
stonefaced toronto
