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Old 04-24-2010, 10:04 PM
 
14,260 posts, read 23,991,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deef1 View Post
It's not just that we are bringing our own water on board. Read any reports about your beverage served on a plane. They will tell you. DO NOT DRINK any water or ice from a plane unless you want to get sick. Those are not my words..they are reported statistics that it is unsafe. The warnings are not to drink coffee or the ice. As for a soda, I always ask for NO ice. Most of the time you can get bottled water on the plane, but they give you this child size bottle that serves for a "sip". No thanks. I want a BOTTLE of water. Other flights I've been on you get a Cup of water (from where?)
That is incorrect.

Domestic airlines bring in ice which is produced off the plane by the airline caterers which may vary depending on the airports. They also use bottled water for beverages.

Sometimes I wonder where all this misinformation comes from. Oops, that is right, this is the internet.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:35 AM
 
1,188 posts, read 2,047,506 times
Reputation: 1881
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
That is incorrect.

Domestic airlines bring in ice which is produced off the plane by the airline caterers which may vary depending on the airports. They also use bottled water for beverages.

Sometimes I wonder where all this misinformation comes from. Oops, that is right, this is the internet.

Ughh..NO..YOU are wrong. I ask the stewardess on each flight, "Do you use bottled water to make your coffee?" and the answer is always..NO! As for the ice and the water quality/safety...AND...I don't think the EPA is MISINFORMATION...

here is just one of many links...
Is Drinking and Handwashing Water on Planes Safe? on MedicineNet.com

1. What is EPA announcing regarding airline water quality?

EPA is announcing that it has signed agreements (administrative orders upon consent) with 11 major domestic airlines and 13 smaller charter and low-cost airlines to ensure the safety of the drinking water used by their passengers and crew . This announcement is an update to one that was made on Jan. 19, 2005, when EPA announced the results of the additional water quality inspections by EPA enforcement officials on 169 randomly selected domestic and international passenger aircraft at 12 airports throughout the U.S.

2. What are the results of EPA's sampling of aircraft in 2004?

During the summer of 2004, EPA conducted water quality sampling of one or more galley water taps, water fountains or lavatory faucets on each of 158 aircraft at 7 airports. As EPA announced in September 2004, 12.7% of those aircraft (20 aircraft) were found to be positive for the presence of total coliform bacteria.
During November-December of 2004, EPA conducted a second round of water quality sampling of 169 aircraft at 12 airports. This second round of monitoring sought water samples from galley water taps as well as lavatory faucets for each aircraft. EPA found that 17.2% of these aircraft (29 aircraft) were total-coliform-positive.
Of the aircraft sampled by EPA in this second round of sampling, 76.3% were US-based. For this round of sampling, the results for foreign-based or US-based aircraft were relatively close. Of the 40 foreign-based carriers sampled during this round, 17.5% (7 aircraft) were total-coliform-positive. By comparison, of the 129 US-based aircraft sampled during this round, 17.1% (22 aircraft) were total-coliform-positive.
Overall, adding together the results of the first and second rounds of EPA sampling of aircraft, EPA has sampled 327 aircraft in 2004. Overall, 15.0% of the aircraft sampled were found to be total-coliform-positive. Overall, 4.3% of the galleys or water fountains sampled were found to be total-coliform-positive; 14.0% of the lavatory faucets sampled were found to be total-coliform-positive. Overall, 49 aircraft were found to be total-coliform-positive. Overall, 76.8% of the aircraft sampled by EPA in this second round of sampling were US-based, and 23.2% of the aircraft. Of the 76 foreign-based carriers sampled overall, 19.7% were total-coliform-positive. By comparison, of the 251 US-based aircraft sampled, 13.5% were total-coliform-positive.

3. What is EPA doing about this problem?

EPA has met with airline officials many times to ensure that they are aware of the problem. EPA is negotiating with the industry to increase monitoring of aircraft water systems and ensure that in the event of contamination, contingency plans are immediately implemented. EPA is negotiating agreements with Delta Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Omni Air International and Southwest Airlines. EPA has also begun negotiations with the smaller, regional and charter aircraft carriers to address drinking water quality with orders similar to those reached with the major carriers. The Agency will also negotiate similar orders with foreign flagged carriers to the extent that it has jurisdiction.

Written on January 13, 2010 at 11:33 pm by dfinzer
Improving the quality of airplane water

The next time you order water on a plane, you may not have to feel guilty about using up a plastic bottle. New EPA regulations for airplanes will likely mean a reduction in the use of bottled water. The EPA’s new National Primary Drinking Water Regulations for Aircraft Public Water Systems—coming into effect in October 2011—will require airplanes to carry water that is suitable for drinking. So, airplanes won’t have to carry around heavy supplies of bottled water because they can serve water from their portable storage systems. Looks like a win-win situation for everyone—including the environment.



Currently, the recommendations are still to drink bottled water and not to consume the ice or galley water onboard a plane to assure your health and safety. Planes carry bottled water to serve, but the coffee and Ice are NOT bottled. Again, I ask...they admit..it is NOT! Maybe after October 2011 things will change for the better. Until then...take heed.

If you chose to drink it, be my guest. I won't and I am advising others who haven't been clued in to investigate if further before they do.

Last edited by Deef1; 04-25-2010 at 07:06 AM..
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:12 AM
 
28,241 posts, read 39,895,668 times
Reputation: 36747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deef1 View Post
It's not just that we are bringing our own water on board. Read any reports about your beverage served on a plane. They will tell you. DO NOT DRINK any water or ice from a plane unless you want to get sick. Those are not my words..they are reported statistics that it is unsafe. The warnings are not to drink coffee or the ice. As for a soda, I always ask for NO ice. Most of the time you can get bottled water on the plane, but they give you this child size bottle that serves for a "sip". No thanks. I want a BOTTLE of water. Other flights I've been on you get a Cup of water (from where?)

Point is...I bring my own water and will continue to do so. I also bring my own food because I am NOT going to pay some ridiculous price for crackers. As for the trash, it doesn't matter if they give you the food snack or you have brought it on yourself...you still have NO WHERE to put the trash until they decide to get around to you to pick it up...TOO LATE...guess what...I'm done and I have usually already scooped it up, tried to wrap it in my ITSY BITSY napkin provided and , yes, you guessed it, STUFFED it in the seat back pocket. IF they don't want it there then provide us with a small trash bag like you get at the carwash that we can hang on the seatback somehow until they come around to get it. As for the water bottle, add a strap type holder for the bottle. Don't complain about US TRYING to be comfortable in our CRAMPED little spaces for hours...give us the dignity to HELP KEEP OUR SPACES CLEAN! Most of us WANT to keep it clean and tidy. An no one is intentionally TRYING to break the seatback pockets. Nothing else is provided, so ... guess what...that is what we use! It's just that simple
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
That is incorrect.

Domestic airlines bring in ice which is produced off the plane by the airline caterers which may vary depending on the airports. They also use bottled water for beverages.

Sometimes I wonder where all this misinformation comes from. Oops, that is right, this is the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deef1 View Post
Ughh..NO..YOU are wrong. I ask the stewardess on each flight, "Do you use bottled water to make your coffee?" and the answer is always..NO! As for the ice and the water quality/safety...AND...I don't think the EPA is MISINFORMATION...

here is just one of many links...
Is Drinking and Handwashing Water on Planes Safe? on MedicineNet.com

1. What is EPA announcing regarding airline water quality?

EPA is announcing that it has signed agreements (administrative orders upon consent) with 11 major domestic airlines and 13 smaller charter and low-cost airlines to ensure the safety of the drinking water used by their passengers and crew . This announcement is an update to one that was made on Jan. 19, 2005, when EPA announced the results of the additional water quality inspections by EPA enforcement officials on 169 randomly selected domestic and international passenger aircraft at 12 airports throughout the U.S.

2. What are the results of EPA's sampling of aircraft in 2004?

During the summer of 2004, EPA conducted water quality sampling of one or more galley water taps, water fountains or lavatory faucets on each of 158 aircraft at 7 airports. As EPA announced in September 2004, 12.7% of those aircraft (20 aircraft) were found to be positive for the presence of total coliform bacteria.
During November-December of 2004, EPA conducted a second round of water quality sampling of 169 aircraft at 12 airports. This second round of monitoring sought water samples from galley water taps as well as lavatory faucets for each aircraft. EPA found that 17.2% of these aircraft (29 aircraft) were total-coliform-positive.
Of the aircraft sampled by EPA in this second round of sampling, 76.3% were US-based. For this round of sampling, the results for foreign-based or US-based aircraft were relatively close. Of the 40 foreign-based carriers sampled during this round, 17.5% (7 aircraft) were total-coliform-positive. By comparison, of the 129 US-based aircraft sampled during this round, 17.1% (22 aircraft) were total-coliform-positive.
Overall, adding together the results of the first and second rounds of EPA sampling of aircraft, EPA has sampled 327 aircraft in 2004. Overall, 15.0% of the aircraft sampled were found to be total-coliform-positive. Overall, 4.3% of the galleys or water fountains sampled were found to be total-coliform-positive; 14.0% of the lavatory faucets sampled were found to be total-coliform-positive. Overall, 49 aircraft were found to be total-coliform-positive. Overall, 76.8% of the aircraft sampled by EPA in this second round of sampling were US-based, and 23.2% of the aircraft. Of the 76 foreign-based carriers sampled overall, 19.7% were total-coliform-positive. By comparison, of the 251 US-based aircraft sampled, 13.5% were total-coliform-positive.

3. What is EPA doing about this problem?

EPA has met with airline officials many times to ensure that they are aware of the problem. EPA is negotiating with the industry to increase monitoring of aircraft water systems and ensure that in the event of contamination, contingency plans are immediately implemented. EPA is negotiating agreements with Delta Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Omni Air International and Southwest Airlines. EPA has also begun negotiations with the smaller, regional and charter aircraft carriers to address drinking water quality with orders similar to those reached with the major carriers. The Agency will also negotiate similar orders with foreign flagged carriers to the extent that it has jurisdiction.

Written on January 13, 2010 at 11:33 pm by dfinzer
Improving the quality of airplane water

The next time you order water on a plane, you may not have to feel guilty about using up a plastic bottle. New EPA regulations for airplanes will likely mean a reduction in the use of bottled water. The EPA’s new National Primary Drinking Water Regulations for Aircraft Public Water Systems—coming into effect in October 2011—will require airplanes to carry water that is suitable for drinking. So, airplanes won’t have to carry around heavy supplies of bottled water because they can serve water from their portable storage systems. Looks like a win-win situation for everyone—including the environment.



Currently, the recommendations are still to drink bottled water and not to consume the ice or galley water onboard a plane to assure your health and safety. Planes carry bottled water to serve, but the coffee and Ice are NOT bottled. Again, I ask...they admit..it is NOT! Maybe after October 2011 things will change for the better. Until then...take heed.

If you chose to drink it, be my guest. I won't and I am advising others who haven't been clued in to investigate if further before they do.
LMAO!!
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:41 AM
 
1,188 posts, read 2,047,506 times
Reputation: 1881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
LMAO!!
Right back at you Tek_Freek...Everything is a lie to you. I see what I am posting...what are you posting as proof? Ice is addressed here...(and below this I show the concern for the planes that DO actually bring on the bagged ice) It is your choice. If you want to drink it. Do so! I won't, it's that simple!

Yet another one for my point...
Beverage of your choice and at your own risk

Category: Environmental health (http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/environmental_health/ - broken link) • Regulation (http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/regulation/ - broken link) • Regulations (http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/regulations/ - broken link) • Water pollution (http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/water_pollution/ - broken link)
Posted on: October 14, 2009 6:59 AM, by revere
I don't fly as much as I used to but I still fly too often for my likes and when the cart comes around for the free beverages it's either orange juice "with no ice" or a bloody mary mix "with no ice." I rarely drink water, but if I did, I would never drink the water out of a pitcher, as offered to me a couple of weeks ago on Air Canada. From a bottle, maybe, but since bottled water isn't as well regulated as tap water, I usually don't partake. I know a fair amount about public drinking water, but one day I was seated on a plane next to somebody who knew a lot about airplanes and he said he'd never drink water on an airplane. Shortly thereafter the news carried stories that the US EPA had determined that 15% of water on a sample of 327 aircraft flunked the total coliform standards and inspections showed that all aircraft were out of compliance with the national drinking water standards. As a result, EPA crafted a new Aircraft Drinking Water Rule (ADWR), just issued. Sounds like a good idea, as far as it goes. But it doesn't go very far.
So which agencies in the US regulate drinking water on airplanes anyway? Too many:
In the United States, drinking water safety on airlines is jointly regulated by the EPA, Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). EPA regulates the public water systems that supply water to the airports and the drinking water once it is onboard the aircraft. FDA has jurisdiction over culinary water (e.g., ice) and the points where aircraft obtain water (e.g., pipes or tankers) at the airport. In addition, air carriers must have FAA-accepted operation and maintenance programs for all aircraft, this includes the potable water system. (EPA)
Yikes. Before the water gets on the plane, it's regulated by EPA until it gets into the plane via a tanker truck or pipes, where it is regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Once it gets on board the plane as drinking water, EPA again regulates it, unless it is used for coffee, tea or ice, for which "culinary use" it is regulated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). And the FAA also oversees the operation and maintenance programs for aircraft, including the potable water system. And now, with the new ADWR, EPA will be tightening the water you drink after it gets on the plane (unless it's used for ice or coffee or tea, that is). And they are doing it because when they last looked, the water you drank from a pitcher (which presumably was the same water that made the ice but that's the problem of the FDA) was (literally) pretty ****ty looking. One of seven flunked the coliform rule for drinking water.
Coliforms are a class of organisms associated with the intestinal tracts of warmblooded animals. Failure of the total coliform rule (or one of its more constrained variants, like fecal coliforms) does not mean that the water contains pathogens, even if it was all E. coli (which despite its name, is not made up only of E. coli). After all, your gut is full of E. coli and you don't get sick as a result. Only some strains of E. coli are a problem. But failure of the coliform rule is an indicator that there is a problem because it signals the potential for pathogens in the water. Somewhere along the way it got contaminated by organisms associated with the intestines of warmblooded animals. I don't want to drink water that fails the coliform rule. It's water that is higher risk of also having disease causing agents, including intestinal viruses and parasites as well as pathogenic bacteria. Hence the coliform rule.
And hence the new EPA ADWR for water on airplanes. It covers the water service panel, storage tanks, pipes, valves, treatment devices, and plumbing fixtures within the aircraft that supply water to passengers or crew, but the FDA is still responsible for regulating the watering points (the water cabinets, carts, trucks, and hoses which put the water aboard the plane). It does not cover any flights originating outside the US.
What does the ADWR require? The objective is to make the usual drinking water rules accommodate the special setting of an airplane (and presumably the special lobbying abilities of the airplane industry). It's a combination of increased sampling requirements, best practices (e.g., disinfection and flushing of water systems), training, record keeping and a few other things, all meant to protect the public "while allowing air carriers flexibility in how they achieve these objectives." Flexibility is good and the ADWR has plenty of it. Here are the major requirements:
  • Developing and implementing operations and maintenance plans and coliform sampling plans.
  • Routine disinfection and flushing based on manufacturer recommendations and routine monitoring.
  • Self-inspection of the aircraft water system every five years.
  • Corrective action in response to sample results or other situations that may be a public health risk.
  • Public notification in response to situations that may be a public health risk.
  • Periodic compliance audits by EPA.
EPA is giving the airlines 18 months to get ready, so drink accordingly. In fact even after 18 months you might want to be careful, as this is all self-regulation. The airlines establish the sampling and testing schedules depending upon whatever the manufacturer of their equipment says is best, or if there are no such recommendations or they conflict, according to what the airlines thinks is best. Besides the requirement for sampling, to be determined by the airline, they have to inspect their water systems -- once every 5 years. Of course they can also get audited by the EPA. I'm guessing they'll take their chances on that, since nothing much has happened to them for violating the drinking water standards up to now. So it's not a helluva lot. The airlines claim it will still cost them big bucks. The EPA estimate isn't chump change: just under $7 million. For me or you, that's a lot of money and we know it will be passed on to us as passengers in ticket prices. EPA estimates that just under 710 million passengers travel each year on planes affected by the rule, so that would mean it might cost each of us one cent on each ticket.
In order to make up for it and remain competitive the airlines will probably have to cut corners in other areas. Maybe charge extra for life vests or seat cushions that float?
---------------------------------------------
COMMENTS:
My husband is an airline employee--he says that the ice used for drinks is bagged ice just like you'd get in any store, but he won't use it because the containers they put it in aren't cleaned regularly.
Posted by: abc | October 14, 2009 5:50 PM
7 abc: Thanks for the clarification. It does, however, underline once again the problem. The ice containers are FDA responsibility, not the EPA, so it winds up the same.
Posted by: revere http://scienceblogs.com/mt-static/images/comment/mt_logo.png (broken link) | October 14, 2009 6:10 PM

Last edited by Deef1; 04-25-2010 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Living near our Nation's Capitol since 2010
2,177 posts, read 2,916,070 times
Reputation: 5851
Thanks for all of you who have posted while I was away...I may not agree with all of you, but I think that its good to open up the discussions.

I have been working almost non-stop since my last post. Spring Breaks, etc.

Just a few points:

re seat back trash: We come through the cabin at LEAST 5 times during the flight to ask (beg??) people to hand us their trash. I specifically ask "are you going to take your newspaper, water bottle, pizza box"...etc etc. the answer is often "YES! I am taking it with me". then they leave and there their trash sits in the seat back or on the floor. Guess who has to pick it up between flights?

As for FAs cleaning, SouthRangeFamily was exactly correct. We do N O T get paid for picking up your leavings. The company has made sure that we do it on our own time. We are NOT paid for boarding time, deplaning time, cleaning time, etc. We are ONLY paid once the doors are closed and we have pushed from the gate. Yeah, I know it sounds like we are b*itching, but really, would YOU like to have to clean your office after work (10 minutes a few times a day for example) for FREE????? Bet you wouldnt! We do it 4 to 6 times a day..gratis. So when we ask (beg) you to PLEASE hand us your trash, we would appreciate it if you would help us out.

One theme I have noticed here is that so many have suggestions on how to make things easier. Examples: bathrooms need to be enlarged and made more convenient, bags should be provided for trash from seats, liquor should be cheaper, etc. Do you understand why these things simply will not happen? Every one of those things cost money...LOTS and LOTS of money. the airlines (ALL OF US) are working on paper thin profit margins. Even ONE of these things would be the tipping point to put us under. Do you understand how fragile this industry is? Since de-regulation, we eek by, barely. You may not believe it, but its true. Every single one of us. So, no, these "improvements" will never happen. wish we could but..no.

sorry to hear so many of you hate to fly. I still think it is the most wonderful way to travel and I hope to be able to serve you in the near future.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:33 AM
 
1,188 posts, read 2,047,506 times
Reputation: 1881
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlightAttendant View Post
Thanks for all of you who have posted while I was away...I may not agree with all of you, but I think that its good to open up the discussions.

I have been working almost non-stop since my last post. Spring Breaks, etc.

Just a few points:

re seat back trash: We come through the cabin at LEAST 5 times during the flight to ask (beg??) people to hand us their trash. I specifically ask "are you going to take your newspaper, water bottle, pizza box"...etc etc. the answer is often "YES! I am taking it with me". then they leave and there their trash sits in the seat back or on the floor. Guess who has to pick it up between flights?

As for FAs cleaning, SouthRangeFamily was exactly correct. We do N O T get paid for picking up your leavings. The company has made sure that we do it on our own time. We are NOT paid for boarding time, deplaning time, cleaning time, etc. We are ONLY paid once the doors are closed and we have pushed from the gate. Yeah, I know it sounds like we are b*itching, but really, would YOU like to have to clean your office after work (10 minutes a few times a day for example) for FREE????? Bet you wouldnt! We do it 4 to 6 times a day..gratis. So when we ask (beg) you to PLEASE hand us your trash, we would appreciate it if you would help us out.

One theme I have noticed here is that so many have suggestions on how to make things easier. Examples: bathrooms need to be enlarged and made more convenient, bags should be provided for trash from seats, liquor should be cheaper, etc. Do you understand why these things simply will not happen? Every one of those things cost money...LOTS and LOTS of money. the airlines (ALL OF US) are working on paper thin profit margins. Even ONE of these things would be the tipping point to put us under. Do you understand how fragile this industry is? Since de-regulation, we eek by, barely. You may not believe it, but its true. Every single one of us. So, no, these "improvements" will never happen. wish we could but..no.

sorry to hear so many of you hate to fly. I still think it is the most wonderful way to travel and I hope to be able to serve you in the near future.
Welcome Back Flight Attendant! Well, I'm glad you look at our suggestions and complaints constructively,but your Thread started out, it appeared, as a lecture to the passenger and to what you attendants expected of us. You listed what we should do. We were simply telling you why it wasn't going to happen. I am glad that you go thru the cabin more frequently and there are JERKS out there who are causing problems for you in the way of not giving up their trash and then leaving it, but that is not the reason all passengers are leaving it. Of all my experience flying, it is more frequent that I have to search the attendant down to get it thrown away and when she passes by she/he is running down the isle and I usually have to say.."Excuse me" to get their attention. So like you said about the industry, until the industry can afford it...unfortunately, there probably isn't going to be much change from either side. I personally cannot stand sitting in gross dirty seats and the tray tables and seat back pockets are usually just disgusting. I always wipe my tray table down as soon as I open it. I would hate to see the homes and cars of some of the people who fly if they can't keep that one little space at least halfway clean in as short amount of time as they are sitting there. I can understand your frustrations and feel for you, but again...YOU need to understand OUR frustrations. We are cramped, and are not necessarily "doing anything on purpose to tick you off" for the most part. At least most passengers aren't. Maybe there could be a reason...Attitude can make or break the way a passenger responds to an attendant...if YOU are pleasant -the passengers will do more to accommodate you. Maybe it's kind of your tip for being more polite to us. Friendliness and smiles all around will get more than "do you have any trash? Are you going to take that with you?" kinda thing. Politeness, friendliness might help you lessen your cleaning load.
Just a thought.

Good luck to you!
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