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Old 12-17-2020, 08:10 PM
 
30,175 posts, read 11,815,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graywhiskers View Post
The note logically was written by Patsy.

"I will add to this, some of the terminology used in the ransom note was used by Patsy:

"The terms “watching over” and “and hence” are consistent with a religious mindset and they are known to be used in the Ramsey family Christmas message which Patsy wrote the year after JonBenet’s death."
Yes, he did make some errors as you noted.
http://dyingwords.net/who-really-kil...nbenet-ramsey/"
Those are common phrases. It does not automatically tie to Patsy. I just read the actual handwritten letter again. What could S.B.T.C. mean?

I did just look at a comparison of the letter and PR writing with her left hand. They were pretty similar. And I would imagine if you are having to give a handwriting sample to the police to compare to the ransom note you are going to try to make it come out different than how it would naturally so that could explain why it is a little different.

My feeling all along is the brother killed her and PR decided she decided to cover for him with the ransom letter.
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Old 12-17-2020, 10:17 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,655 posts, read 28,703,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
The "kidnapper" (who was not the person who wrote the note) dictated the RN while the Ramsey family was at the Whites. Their "kidnapping" obviously did not work out.
How do you know that?

Aside from the many opinions about the psychology of the ransom note, there's the fact that the handwriting certainly resembles that of Patsy. And, to make matters more suspicious, why does she deny that it's her own handwriting in her photograph album? Who else's handwriting would it be? When you make an album and label the pictures you would most likely do it yourself. You are just about the only person who would have the qualifications of knowing the identities of the people in the pictures and the time and place. Would you go and get someone else to write those little notations under the photos in your own photo album?

She probably denies it's her writing because she knows that it looks like the writing in the ransom note.

Disguised Handwriting: Unmasking The Ramsey Ransom Note - Expert Handwriting Analysis

The above reference is for anyone who wants to take another close look at how the ransom note writing looks like Patsy's writing. In Part 3, the author states that usually a person will try to disguise the handwriting to throw people off. Manuscript style "a's" and "t's" and wavy letters in this case.

But if you look past the disguise, you get such things as a lower case "g" with an angular hook rather than the usual curve. The lower case "d" is made with a single stroke. Usually it's made with a circle and then a vertical line. "K" as in Killing or thinK or bacK is a large letter. Lower case "u" doesn't have the vertical line. And more, as anyone can see by just looking.

The author says that disguised writing usually wears off towards the end and becomes more similar to the writer's actual handwriting.

I'm not taking into account this author or anyone else's psychological opinion, just the handwriting itself. The video by the handwriting expert that is in one of these posts compares Patsy's writing and mentions the angular g, the u without the line, and so on. Anyone can check and see. I know there are better examples of Patsy's handwriting compared to that in the ransom note, but I just can't find one right now. What I'm saying is that the writing itself, not the content of the note, but the writing looks a lot like hers. An attempt is made to disguise the writing but it still looks like hers.

It certainly appears that Patsy, for whatever reason, wrote the note. JR was eliminated by experts. But they could not eliminate Patsy as the writer. Why she wrote it? Is she trying to protect someone? But it looks like her writing AND she denies that the writing in her very own photograph album is hers. It's fairly convincing that she wrote it.
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Old 12-18-2020, 06:33 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,744 posts, read 26,834,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
How do you know that?
It's fairly obvious from the fact that none of the evidence that the BPD or the FBI came up with pointed to anyone in the Ramsey family -- and they wanted a Ramsey guilty. They worked VERY hard to come up with that, down to sending the black duct tape on JBR's mouth to various labs for detailed analysis. (And that piece, as well as the rest of the roll, could not be traced to the home....along with other items that the killer must have brought in.)

Therefore, given the broken basement window, unlocked windows and door, other burglaries in the neighborhood prior to this, the unidentified pubic hair on the blanket, an unidentified foot print, etc, it must have been someone who entered the house. (I happen to think it was two people, a male and a female.)
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Old 12-18-2020, 06:44 AM
 
Location: So Ca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
It certainly appears that Patsy, for whatever reason, wrote the note.
Aside from the conclusion that all but one of the handwriting experts completely ruling out PR as the writer, if either of the Ramseys had written the note, why, when the Boulder PD asked for handwriting samples, did they give them the pad from which the note had been written? That was where the "practice note" was found. If one of them had written the ransom note, wouldn't they have hidden or disposed of the notepad?
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Old 12-18-2020, 06:49 AM
 
Location: So Ca
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Posted previously:

From Lou Smit's deposition we have this verbal description of the handwriting experts' results.

"SMIT: "Chet Ubowski, his results -- and this is a very brief rendition of his results. There were indications that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. There is evidence which indicates that the ransom note may have been written by Patsy Ramsey. But the evidence falls short of that necessary to support a definite conclusion.

Leonard Speckin, he is a police expert, private forensic document analyst. 'Lack of indications. I can find no evidence that Patsy Ramsey disguised her handwriting exemplars. When I compared the handprinting habits of Patsy Ramsey with those presented in the questioned ransom note, there exists agreement to the extent that some of her individual letter formations and letter combinations do appear in the ransom note. When this agreement is weighed against the number, type, and consistencies of the differences present, I am unable to identify Patsy Ramsey as the author of the questioned ransom note with any degree of certainty. I am, however, unable to eliminate her as the author.'

Edwin Alford, Jr. 'Lack of indications. Examination of the questioned handwriting and comparison of the handwriting specimens submitted has failed to provide a basis for identifying Patsy Ramsey as the writer of the letter.'

Lloyd Cunningham, Ramsey expert, he is the one that certified Chet Ubowski. 'Lack of indications,' that he cannot identify or eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the author of the ransom note. And he has spent 20 hours examining the samples and documents and has found that there were no significant individual characteristics but much significant difference between Patsy's writing and the note.

Richard Dusick, he is the analyst for the United States Secret Service. These are the results of his specific report. 'Lack of indications. A study and comparison of the questioned and specimen writings submitted has resulted in the conclusion that there is no evidence to indicate that Patsy Ramsey executed any of the questioned material appearing on the ransom note.'

Howard Ryle [sic], the former CBI examiner, 'probably not.' His opinion in this case is between 'probably not' and 'elimination,' elimination as Patsy Ramsey as the author of the ransom note. He believes that the writer could be identified if historical writings were found.

The results, the general consensus is inconclusive and below that Patsy wrote the note."
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Old 12-18-2020, 07:01 AM
 
5,717 posts, read 4,296,275 times
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Where did Patsy say that writing in a photo album of hers wasn't hers? I missed that somewhere...
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Old 12-18-2020, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Retired
890 posts, read 883,655 times
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How could anyone know how thoroughly the employees at Access Graphics were investigated?

A number of suspects were cleared by dna, and the dna is very controversial. These suspects should not have been cleared, can find those here:
JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia

I disagree there were "lots of reasons" why someone used $118,000 in the ransom note. Realistically hardly anyone would have used that number.
Hardly anyone would have returned the pen and pad to their original location. An intruder would have taken the pen and pad with them, not put them neatly back in their place.

The only two choices are Patsy Ramsey or the housekeeper Linda Hoffman-Pugh.
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Old 12-18-2020, 08:04 AM
 
30,175 posts, read 11,815,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Posted previously:

From Lou Smit's deposition we have this verbal description of the handwriting experts' results.

"SMIT: "Chet Ubowski, his results -- and this is a very brief rendition of his results. There were indications that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. There is evidence which indicates that the ransom note may have been written by Patsy Ramsey. But the evidence falls short of that necessary to support a definite conclusion.

I am assuming these handwriting experts were not hired by the Ramsey's for their evaluation, that they are unbiased in their opinions. If that is the case it seems to me that the bar is very high to say yes that is the same person and they seem to be unable to say 100% that it is or isn't.
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Old 12-18-2020, 08:23 AM
 
5,717 posts, read 4,296,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graywhiskers View Post
How could anyone know how thoroughly the employees at Access Graphics were investigated?

A number of suspects were cleared by dna, and the dna is very controversial. These suspects should not have been cleared, can find those here:
JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia

I disagree there were "lots of reasons" why someone used $118,000 in the ransom note. Realistically hardly anyone would have used that number.
Hardly anyone would have returned the pen and pad to their original location. An intruder would have taken the pen and pad with them, not put them neatly back in their place.

Not necessarily. Someone who wanted to cast suspicion on the Ramseys might have left the pen and pad. Taking it with would suggest an intruder. (But I doubt that's why they left it)

Interestingly the disposition of the tape is unknown, which does suggest an intruder took it with. But that isn't the only conclusion that can be drawn from its absence. It merely suggests it.

That's the problem with this case, and why it hasn't been solved. The evidence is very strange and ambiguous, unless you have your mind made up who did it then of course its slam dunk.


And you can analyze the note from now till doomsday, but handwriting analysis is very far from being a proven, repeatable science.
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Old 12-18-2020, 08:37 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,744 posts, read 26,834,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graywhiskers View Post
How could anyone know how thoroughly the employees at Access Graphics were investigated?
Read the transcripts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graywhiskers View Post
A number of suspects were cleared by dna, and the dna is very controversial. These suspects should not have been cleared, can find those here:
JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia
Old, outdated Wiki site on which anyone could post (when it was open).

The DNA profile that is in CODIS, which is from the killer's saliva that was mixed with JBR's blood in her underwear, is what cleared many suspects. It, in itself, is not controversial. It was referred to as distal stain 007-2, of the unidentified male. The only issue with DNA that was deemed controversial--according to the media--was that the t-DNA found years later by Bode labs, on JBR's pajama bottoms, had some DNA markings that were consistent with DS-007-2. So they were going to use new DNA testing. That was three years ago, and we've heard nothing about it since.

Lou Smit left a list of uncleared suspects, recently posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graywhiskers View Post
I disagree there were "lots of reasons" why someone used $118,000 in the ransom note. Realistically hardly anyone would have used that number.
In the hours they had to kill until the Ramseys returned from the Whites, they most likely went through desk drawers or looked through papers left in that area in which one of them wrote the RN. The house was apparently very cluttered. The bonus amount was on each paystub (as posted before). They could have easily seen it while looking through the house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graywhiskers View Post
Hardly anyone would have returned the pen and pad to their original location. An intruder would have taken the pen and pad with them, not put them neatly back in their place.
They had a long wait after they wrote the RN until the Ramseys returned from the Whites. What else were they going to do with the pad and pen?
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