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I disagree. If Hank hasn't gone bad, then that means Hank was always bad and we're only seeing absolute proof of it now. His being a cop isn't an excuse for being so black and white. Hank's partner was able to feel empathy for Jesse after listening to him share what has happened. His partner is a cop and he's not seeing black and white.
I disagree. It's not necessarily wrong to be a "black and white" sort of person, or cop. That's why he and his partner get along so well, and make a good team. His partner by himself might not have the edge, the clarity, the strength to do what Hank does as second nature. Together they're good - individually they might both be less effective.'
There are certain professions that attract more "black and white" thinkers, people who are more rule oriented and more committed totally to following those rules. We wouldn't want a whole society run by those types, but we NEED those types. Then there are professions in which that type would be terrible (for instance, psychologists, interior designers, etc). It takes all sorts and Hank is 100 percent committed to "bringing bad guys to justice" even if that means some bad guys are collateral damage. They're bad in his opinion - and expendable when good people are in danger.
That's my take on it anyway. I don't think Hank has changed at all - I think his character is the same it was at the beginning of the show. He and Saul have been the most consistent characters, and the least complex (as many people are) throughout the series, I would say.
--Hank crossed over and broke bad last night because he actually HOPED his setup would get Jesse killed by Walt, as he said he'd have it on tape and a slam dunk arrest of Walt. They even did a close up at the lust in his eyes at Walt killing Jesse.
--Where is Walt's REAL home? Hell is his real home, as Jesse thinks he's the devil incarnate. Perhaps some egoic hell situation awaits for Walt via Jesse. Perhaps Jesse gets Todd and uncle gang and or Lydia to go after Walt .
--They are really playing up Flynn's love and devotion for his father--something will play out in that direction.
--With Hank breaking bad now, they are continually showing how much gray area there is between good and bad behavior. It's not black and white, no one is all good or all bad. How we justify our bad behavior is what much of the show is about--Saul being the most honest and has the real clarity on how slippery that line between good and bad behavior is.
This^^^^
Although Hank showed small signs of breaking bad way before this.His supervisor gave him a direct order To drop this case,a direct order!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson
Good post I agree Hank broke bad same reason. Flynn was reaching out wanting loved back so badly by his dad I was thinking this was their goodbye to each other scene too but neither one knows it yet.
As someone that has 2 sons I get emo every time i see a scene with Walt and Walt jr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I think his goal wasn't to get Jesse killed, but was to get Walt caught - and Jesse is, in Hank's mind, possibly expendable, since he's a bad guy. Bad guys get what's coming to them sometimes, is what I think Hank feels like, and his goal is to get Walt - especially now that he feels that Walt is endangering not only his own kids, but Marie and even Hank, as well as Skyler. I think Hank sees Jesse as perhaps having to be sacrificed for the safety of people who "aren't bad" in Hank's world of good vs evil. To him, Jesse is as evil as Walt. He's at least willing to take that chance with Jesse's life in order to save the lives of innocent people.
I can see your point also.
But as my mom once told me"Two wrongs don't make it right"
One life is not more valuable than the other.Good or bad,Jesse is somebody's child.
I can tell Jesse didn't want to cooperate with hank and Gomie,but felt obligated cooperate.
Skyler is my new favorite character.I can see her bumping off Lydia next week and taking her spot.
She looked so cute last night,with the her glass in hand barking out commands to Walt
Walt calling Todd and his uncle is the worst ideal ever ***smh****
so just why must walter die or go to prison? what if he's smart enough to flee the US, get 1/2 dozen different surgeons (over the period of a year or so) to do 6 surgical changes to his face? then he can just relax on his money, and come back periodically to make things an appropriate living hell for those who've messed him over (or tried to do so)?
This^^^^
Although Hank showed small signs of breaking bad way before this.His supervisor gave him a direct order To drop this case,a direct order!
As someone that has 2 sons I get emo every time i see a scene with Walt and Walt jr.
I can see your point also.
But as my mom once told me"Two wrongs don't make it right"
One life is not more valuable than the other.Good or bad,Jesse is somebody's child.
I can tell Jesse didn't want to cooperate with hank and Gomie,but felt obligated cooperate.
Skyler is my new favorite character.I can see her bumping off Lydia next week and taking her spot.
She looked so cute last night,with the her glass in hand barking out commands to Walt
Walt calling Todd and his uncle is the worst ideal ever ***smh****
I loved Skyler's line last night when Walt said, "Were you spying on me?" She said, "Yes, and I feel so awful about it." NOT!!!
I'm not saying that I agree with Hank's take on the value of Jesse's life - what I'm saying is that I think that Hank TRULY believes what he's doing is right, and to protect society and the innocent people in that society. So in that sense, I don't think he's breaking bad or compromising his own moral standard AT ALL.
I disagree. It's not necessarily wrong to be a "black and white" sort of person, or cop. That's why he and his partner get along so well, and make a good team. His partner by himself might not have the edge, the clarity, the strength to do what Hank does as second nature. Together they're good - individually they might both be less effective.'
There are certain professions that attract more "black and white" thinkers, people who are more rule oriented and more committed totally to following those rules. We wouldn't want a whole society run by those types, but we NEED those types. Then there are professions in which that type would be terrible (for instance, psychologists, interior designers, etc). It takes all sorts and Hank is 100 percent committed to "bringing bad guys to justice" even if that means some bad guys are collateral damage. They're bad in his opinion - and expendable when good people are in danger.
That's my take on it anyway. I don't think Hank has changed at all - I think his character is the same it was at the beginning of the show. He and Saul have been the most consistent characters, and the least complex (as many people are) throughout the series, I would say.
He has definitely changed he has always been a rule follower. He has been breaking the rules ever since his boss told him to drop the case. Until now, his partner has been questioning his not listening to the boss' orders. If he hasn't changed at all, then he has been bad all along because there is something downright evil about being so black and white that he can willingly let someone be killed for his own moral agenda without even blinking.
When it comes right down to it I don't think Hank did anything illegal here. Hank follows the rules, whether the rules are good or bad is a matter of opinion.
Not sure why you are typing in all blue.
When I multi quote a post I use blue to post my answer between each quote for it to be easier to read for the reader. Just my preference.
He has definitely changed he has always been a rule follower. He has been breaking the rules ever since his boss told him to drop the case. Until now, his partner has been questioning his not listening to the boss' orders. If he hasn't changed at all, then he has been bad all along because there is something downright evil about being so black and white that he can willingly let someone be killed for his own moral agenda without even blinking.
See what I said above - I didn't say that I agree with Hank's take on human life. What I said is that HANK firmly believes it and hasn't wavered in that commitment. He believes that some people are good and some people are bad, and if push comes to shove, then it's morally OK for a bad person to become collateral damage in order to protect good people. I don't think he's changed fundamentally from Day One of the show. He's always been on the edge, radically committed to "fighting the bad guys," and absolutely determined to work as hard as he can to put these people away. If they happen to get killed in the process, well, they were bad guys anyway.
Like I said, that's not necessarily my own moral standard. I'm just saying that I think Hank has been consistent with HIS own moral standard.
As for not following the rules when his boss told him to drop the case, I think this was very difficult for Hank and brought a frightened, even more radical edge to his actions, so yes, in this sense we're seeing more of the nuances of his character, but I think that was always there and would be a natural progression when his orderly world of rules and laws is suddenly in upheaval. I still think he's following rules - a higher set of rules - ultimate GOOD VS EVIL in his mind. I think he is very, very upset by the feeling that he has to step outside his usual box of rules and laws, unlike for instance, Walt - who realized that he became invigorated and empowered when he did so.
I think what was really interesting about Marie is that she's not a rule follower - till now. Now that the **** is hitting the fan, she wants to retreat to a more orderly world, one that's made secure by rules. She and her sister are alike in this - both have a radical streak to them, a streak that in the right circumstances can become bravery, and in other circumstances can be recklessness, or even ruthlessness. But when confronted with their own capabilities and radical options, they both seek refuge in "normalcy" and "ordered society," unlike Walt or Jesse, or Lydia.
I think this yearning for order and normalcy is what makes Hank and Mike very similar, by the way. Their ultimate goals have a lot in common. I'm pretty sure Mike is very dead, but I keep wishing he were still alive. I loved his character!
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 09-02-2013 at 12:15 PM..
so just why must walter die or go to prison? what if he's smart enough to flee the US, get 1/2 dozen different surgeons (over the period of a year or so) to do 6 surgical changes to his face? then he can just relax on his money, and come back periodically to make things an appropriate living hell for those who've messed him over (or tried to do so)?
Walt's biggest weakness is thinking he's smarter than everyone else. He believes he can manipulate everything so he can continue living his life where he wants to live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I'm not saying that I agree with Hank's take on the value of Jesse's life - what I'm saying is that I think that Hank TRULY believes what he's doing is right, and to protect society and the innocent people in that society. So in that sense, I don't think he's breaking bad or compromising his own moral standard AT ALL.
Hank is all about Hank now. He is humiliated that his BIL did this under his nose. It's not about protecting society and innocent people anymore. He knows Walt isn't even in the business now. This is personal now.
Walt's biggest weakness is thinking he's smarter than everyone else. He believes he can manipulate everything so he can continue living his life where he wants to live.
Huh, you meant Walt right? Edit: nevermind you fixed it while I was typing
Quote:
Hank is all about Hank now. He is humiliated that his BIL did this under his nose. It's not about protecting society and innocent people anymore. He knows Walt isn't even in the business now. This is personal now.
I am wondering how much it is about getting back at Walt for playing him now.
I think Hank does hate crime, but in a way he's also kind of like Saul, it keeps him in a job. Seems like he even joked around about this in the first season.
Hank is all about Hank now. He is humiliated that his BIL did this under his nose. It's not about protecting society and innocent people anymore. He knows Walt isn't even in the business now. This is personal now.
I agree. Hank feels completely betrayed by his BIL, and humiliated in looking back and realizing how many big hints were right there: when Walt said "You got me"; when Walt wouldn't take Hank to the laundry; when Walt had the heavy duffle bag and told Hank it had a half million dollars in it.....and realizing that it was Hank who paved the initial path for Walt into the meth business, when Hank invited Walt to accompany him on a drug bust.....and realizing all the lies he fell for. Hank is trained to be an expert in busting druggies, and Walt has completely made him look like a fool.
At this point, Hank just wants to even the score, to regain his dignity, to do whatever it takes to BRING WALT DOWN.
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