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the term " scots irish " is not really used in this part of the world , ulster scots is a term used by protestants in northern ireland of scottish ancestry to describle their cultural and ethnic heritage
btw , the scots irish in america were never irish and would not have regarded themselves as such , they were british and loyal to the crown , they called themselves scots irish to distinguish themselves from the catholic irish who arrived in america many years later
Well (American here), the Scots-Irish have distinguished themselves foremost by not liking ANYONE. They were the primary animus in the Revolutionary War (most emigrated from N. Ireland due to religious oppression by the English Crown, they HATED the English). Although they arrived in the 1700s,and very few owned slaves themselves, they became the backbone of the Rebels of the Civil War and KKK in later years, because they were in direct competition with black freemen. Irish Catholics fell into this same trap in Pennsylvania (although they were lowest of the whites, they were at least white, and they figured that out quickly), becoming ardent racists.
The Scots-Irish have since distinguished themselves by creating a tremendous legacy of country and bluegrass music, creating evangelical churches, serving in most American wars, producing a bunch of Presidents and political demagogues, being bold and feisty pioneers, and creating the most stubbornly ignorant and reactionary subculture of the USA (the Old South, today's Rush Limbaugh belt). What the Scots-Irish do best is get pissed off and hold a grudge. They are easily manipulated by demagogues. You are kidding yourself if you think they were loyal to the crown. They figured out early on that the Crown did not care for them, and they reacted accordingly. They may not be Irish, but they are basically the same people,only more so. Smart, feisty, funny, and prone to conflict.
Interestingly, in America, the dirt poor Irish Catholics who landed in urban areas became one of the most educated white subcultures (behind only the Jewish immigrants). The Scots-Irish became the least educated. What always amazes me is that many of the Scots-Irish in America seem to pride themselves in being loud and uneducated, whereas their ancestors in Scotland created some of the finest intellectual acheivements in the history of humanity (Scottish Enlightenment). An amazing paradox. Needless to say, a VERY interesting American subculture, who some might say are the quintessential Americans (capable of greatness and vexing stupidity), but no they did not like the English more than the Irish.
Well (American here), the Scots-Irish have distinguished themselves foremost by not liking ANYONE. They were the primary animus in the Revolutionary War (most emigrated from N. Ireland due to religious oppression by the English Crown, they HATED the English). Although they arrived in the 1700s,and very few owned slaves themselves, they became the backbone of the Rebels of the Civil War and KKK in later years, because they were in direct competition with black freemen. Irish Catholics fell into this same trap in Pennsylvania (although they were lowest of the whites, they were at least white, and they figured that out quickly), becoming ardent racists.
The Scots-Irish have since distinguished themselves by creating a tremendous legacy of country and bluegrass music, creating evangelical churches, serving in most American wars, producing a bunch of Presidents and political demagogues, being bold and feisty pioneers, and creating the most stubbornly ignorant and reactionary subculture of the USA (the Old South, today's Rush Limbaugh belt). What the Scots-Irish do best is get pissed off and hold a grudge. They are easily manipulated by demagogues. You are kidding yourself if you think they were loyal to the crown. They figured out early on that the Crown did not care for them, and they reacted accordingly. They may not be Irish, but they are basically the same people,only more so. Smart, feisty, funny, and prone to conflict.
Interestingly, in America, the dirt poor Irish Catholics who landed in urban areas became one of the most educated white subcultures (behind only the Jewish immigrants). The Scots-Irish became the least educated. What always amazes me is that many of the Scots-Irish in America seem to pride themselves in being loud and uneducated, whereas their ancestors in Scotland created some of the finest intellectual acheivements in the history of humanity (Scottish Enlightenment). An amazing paradox. Needless to say, a VERY interesting American subculture, who some might say are the quintessential Americans (capable of greatness and vexing stupidity), but no they did not like the English more than the Irish.
i didnt mean they didnt distinguish themselves full stop , i meant they refered to themselves as the scots irish in order to distinguish themselves from the catholic irish who they despised
the ulster scots today dont care that much for the english either but their still staunchly british
the scots irish were much wealthier than the catholic irish , they benefited from the stealing of irish lands by the british crown in the seventeenth century , they went to america and bought land , the catholic irish who arrived from the 1840,s on couldnt afford to go further than the north east
i didnt mean they didnt distinguish themselves full stop , i meant they refered to themselves as the scots irish in order to distinguish themselves from the catholic irish who they despised
the ulster scots today dont care that much for the english either but their still staunchly british
the scots irish were much wealthier than the catholic irish , they benefited from the stealing of irish lands by the british crown in the seventeenth century , they went to america and bought land , the catholic irish who arrived from the 1840,s on couldnt afford to go further than the north east
Bob. The so called Scots Irish WERE English. The majority of them originated from Northern England and the border counties of Scotland and England. They opposed the British Monarchy/Establishment(because of religion mainly) not the actual British which is why they were exiled to Ireland which resulted in the Ulster Plantations. They had a very distinct culture to the rest of Britain(the same as today). Why do you think the "Ulster Scots" in Northern Ireland claim allegiance to Britain these days? Because they ARE British. Their most distinguishing trait was their rebellious nature which translates into American politics today. They are a very independent people that don't believe in government interference. They have a very big influence on the way America is shaped as mentioned by Fiddlehead. A number of American presidents were of Scots Irish descent.
Well (American here), the Scots-Irish have distinguished themselves foremost by not liking ANYONE. They were the primary animus in the Revolutionary War (most emigrated from N. Ireland due to religious oppression by the English Crown, they HATED the English). Although they arrived in the 1700s,and very few owned slaves themselves, they became the backbone of the Rebels of the Civil War and KKK in later years, because they were in direct competition with black freemen. Irish Catholics fell into this same trap in Pennsylvania (although they were lowest of the whites, they were at least white, and they figured that out quickly), becoming ardent racists.
The Scots-Irish have since distinguished themselves by creating a tremendous legacy of country and bluegrass music, creating evangelical churches, serving in most American wars, producing a bunch of Presidents and political demagogues, being bold and feisty pioneers, and creating the most stubbornly ignorant and reactionary subculture of the USA (the Old South, today's Rush Limbaugh belt). What the Scots-Irish do best is get pissed off and hold a grudge. They are easily manipulated by demagogues. You are kidding yourself if you think they were loyal to the crown. They figured out early on that the Crown did not care for them, and they reacted accordingly. They may not be Irish, but they are basically the same people,only more so. Smart, feisty, funny, and prone to conflict.
Interestingly, in America, the dirt poor Irish Catholics who landed in urban areas became one of the most educated white subcultures (behind only the Jewish immigrants). The Scots-Irish became the least educated. What always amazes me is that many of the Scots-Irish in America seem to pride themselves in being loud and uneducated, whereas their ancestors in Scotland created some of the finest intellectual acheivements in the history of humanity (Scottish Enlightenment). An amazing paradox. Needless to say, a VERY interesting American subculture, who some might say are the quintessential Americans (capable of greatness and vexing stupidity), but no they did not like the English more than the Irish.
They are not the same people and the Native Irish have alot more charisma in all fields that you stated. Stop lumping the racist propaganda on the Native Irish. The Native Irish had no predominance in the South so you can cut that nonsense already.
Why are your British subgroup not considered an ethnic group anymore according to the US census, yet the Irish are one of the biggest white subgroups in the United States?
Bob. The so called Scots Irish WERE English. The majority of them originated from Northern England and the border counties of Scotland and England. They opposed the British Monarchy/Establishment(because of religion mainly) not the actual British which is why they were exiled to Ireland which resulted in the Ulster Plantations. They had a very distinct culture to the rest of Britain(the same as today). Why do you think the "Ulster Scots" in Northern Ireland claim allegiance to Britain these days? Because they ARE British. Their most distinguishing trait was their rebellious nature which translates into American politics today. They are a very independent people that don't believe in government interference. They have a very big influence on the way America is shaped as mentioned by Fiddlehead. A number of American presidents were of Scots Irish descent.
i know the scots irish supported independance from britain once they settled in america , i was refering to their political and cultural stance while they lived ( and continue ) to live on the island of ireland , the protestant people who live in northern ireland are overwhelmingly of scottish ancestry , not english , protestants who live in the south of ireland are predomenantly of english ancestry , hence why the majority of protestants in the south of ireland are anglican and the majority of protestants in northern ireland are presbyterian , the landed gentry on the island of ireland were of english stock but they mostley lived in the south and were landlords
the people known as the scots irish were and are presbyterian in the main
im aware of the fact that a large number of american presidents were of scots irish ancestry , they had a very significant involvement in the republican party down the years
i know the scots irish supported independance from britain once they settled in america , i was refering to their political and cultural stance while they lived ( and continue ) to live on the island of ireland , the protestant people who live in northern ireland are overwhelmingly of scottish ancestry , not english , protestants who live in the south of ireland are predomenantly of english ancestry , hence why the majority of protestants in the south of ireland are anglican and the majority of protestants in northern ireland are presbyterian , the landed gentry on the island of ireland were of english stock but they mostley lived in the south and were landlords
the people known as the scots irish were and are presbyterian in the main
im aware of the fact that a large number of american presidents were of scots irish ancestry , they had a very significant involvement in the republican party down the years
But they aren't of Scottish ancestry. They are Northern ENGLISH. They are of lowland Scot and Northern English origin. They aren't true Scots. They may have have been of a different Christian sect to the other English but they were/are still English. Comprende.
But they aren't of Scottish ancestry. They are Northern ENGLISH. They are of lowland Scot and Northern English origin. They aren't true Scots. They may have have been of a different Christian sect to the other English but they were/are still English. Comprende.
lowland scot encompasses everything which isnt the highlands , i.e , the bulk of the population of scotland
Bob. Do the following surnames strike you as Scottish? These are common names in the Scots Irish dominated parts of America. Brown, Fletcher, Jackson, Harris, Hammonds, Barlow, Lewis, Beesley. Get back to me. They may have had an inkling of Scottish in them but they were English.
They are not the same people and the Native Irish have alot more charisma in all fields that you stated. Stop lumping the racist propaganda on the Native Irish. The Native Irish had no predominance in the South so you can cut that nonsense already.
Why are your British subgroup not considered an ethnic group anymore according to the US census, yet the Irish are one of the biggest white subgroups in the United States?
The Scot Irish most certainly created the southern culture. They have never lacked for self-confidence and creativity.
And yes, the Scots-Irish were not exclusively Scottish, but largely so, though they did not care if you were English if you wanted to join up with them. Nonetheless are not very different from the Irish in basic temperament. The Irish did not have a large role in southern culture, but in areas where they were in direct competition with free black men, they often adopted racist attitudes. The classic book "How the Irish became White" describes such dynamics. Don't take me wrong. I love the Irish, but the truth is, people will often go down bad paths when it serves their interest.
Not all by any means, and the Catholic Irish actually have, in my opinion, a rather distinguished list of contributions in America, as to the Scot, Scots-Irish, and of course, English. The intriguing difference is that Irish Catholics became urban, northern, educated, and left-leaning, whereas the Scots-Irish became rural, less educated, and conservative. Just goes to show how similar people can diverge because of particular conditions when they immigrate.
The reason the the Irish are not considered a separate, is because they see themselves as Americans. The Irish Americans are quite proud of their culture, but like the Germans and English and Scots-Irish, just consider themselves white Americans. Irish, I suspect married many Italians and Poles in the east, diluting their specific Irish ties, and out west, the married Germans, Scandinavians, and Mexicans, essentially blending in to the larger melting pot. My wife is 100% Irish American, and I am German, French, English Dutch, Scots-Irish, and Native American. We are a pretty typical couple. We love all those cultures, and the only disappointment is that we know so little.
Bob. Do the following surnames strike you as Scottish? These are common names in the Scots Irish dominated parts of America. Brown, Fletcher, Jackson, Harris, Hammonds, Barlow, Lewis, Beesley. Get back to me. They may have had an inkling of Scottish in them but they were English.
all of them could easily be scottish , gordon brown was pm of britain a few years ago and was as scottish as they come
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