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Old 11-22-2022, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Northern California
130,487 posts, read 12,130,332 times
Reputation: 39060

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey_C_Earwicker View Post
Remarkably co-incidental to Trump claims.

The video producer PragerU, is a leading producer of false claims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU
Tried to rep you again, but too soon.

I am so fed up of hearing about baseless fraud claims. I worked a few elections, & know it would not be as easy as some gullible people belive. And lets face it, if there really was widespread fraud, don't you think it would be in court now to prove it.

I am glad the UK polls seem to be more accurate.
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Old 11-22-2022, 09:42 AM
 
16,615 posts, read 8,625,712 times
Reputation: 19447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Nearly half the population want Northern Ireland to remain in the UK, while a third would vote for a united Ireland tomorrow, according to recent 2022 polls.

As for the Northern Ireland protocol, much more upbeat negotiations continue, with the EU claiming that both sides are very close to an agreement.
BNW - The thing you and other naysayers continue to ignore is how much more likely the reunification of NI & Ireland is just in the last few years, much less going back 10 years. Back then it was under 10% that said they would want it, vs. today you claim 33% would want it. While I no longer trust polls (even when they comport with my thinking), I suspect the numbers are based on how the question/s are framed, and of course who is asked (i.e., Irish/British/Catholics/Protestants).
Thus I suspect more than 1/3 support unification.

Heck, just look at how much things have change politically. At the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, many a hardline Brit said it would never last, with the Irish predicted to break it.
Yet here we are almost a quarter of a century later, and it is still intact. Ironically, it is the Brits via the intransigent DUP which have endangered it more with claims of "the GFA being dead" based on the current kerfuffle over the NI protocol, and their refusal to go back to Stormont.

If we want to talk about change and how wrong the naysayers have been, if I had proffered the notion that Sinn Fein would be the leading party in both NI, and the Republic of Ireland a decade ago, many of you would have said I was off my rocker.
Yet as I type this today, that is the reality.
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Old 11-22-2022, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,202 posts, read 13,489,086 times
Reputation: 19543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
BNW - The thing you and other naysayers continue to ignore is how much more likely the reunification of NI & Ireland is just in the last few years, much less going back 10 years. Back then it was under 10% that said they would want it, vs. today you claim 33% would want it. While I no longer trust polls (even when they comport with my thinking), I suspect the numbers are based on how the question/s are framed, and of course who is asked (i.e., Irish/British/Catholics/Protestants).
Thus I suspect more than 1/3 support unification.

Heck, just look at how much things have change politically. At the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, many a hardline Brit said it would never last, with the Irish predicted to break it.
Yet here we are almost a quarter of a century later, and it is still intact. Ironically, it is the Brits via the intransigent DUP which have endangered it more with claims of "the GFA being dead" based on the current kerfuffle over the NI protocol, and their refusal to go back to Stormont.

If we want to talk about change and how wrong the naysayers have been, if I had proffered the notion that Sinn Fein would be the leading party in both NI, and the Republic of Ireland a decade ago, many of you would have said I was off my rocker.
Yet as I type this today, that is the reality.
What a load of nonsense or are you seriously suggesting that 90% of Northern Ireland were against reunification during the troubles or even more recently.

I just hope Britain can now forge a similar type of relationship with the US as the RoI and France, and I look forward to the day when we finally rid ourselves of US bases.

I am of the opinion that Britain should do no more to support the US than our neighbours the RoI and France, whilst the US can go and fight it's own wars.
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Old 11-22-2022, 11:46 PM
 
2,347 posts, read 854,994 times
Reputation: 3075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
What a load of nonsense or are you seriously suggesting that 90% of Northern Ireland were against reunification during the troubles or even more recently.

I just hope Britain can now forge a similar type of relationship with the US as the RoI and France, and I look forward to the day when we finally rid ourselves of US bases.

I am of the opinion that Britain should do no more to support the US than our neighbours the RoI and France, whilst the US can go and fight it's own wars.
Is this an extension of the Greenham Common saga? ie we dont want nuclear missiles or other weapons of war on our soil but we would still like to be under the umbrella of NATO protection. I think there is some delusional ideology running amok amongst advocates of this line of thought that making the UK safe from nuclear strikes in a war is by creating a nuclear free zone. That will not happen
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Old 11-22-2022, 11:53 PM
 
2,347 posts, read 854,994 times
Reputation: 3075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
What a load of nonsense or are you seriously suggesting that 90% of Northern Ireland were against reunification during the troubles or even more recently.

I just hope Britain can now forge a similar type of relationship with the US as the RoI and France, and I look forward to the day when we finally rid ourselves of US bases.

I am of the opinion that Britain should do no more to support the US than our neighbours the RoI and France, whilst the US can go and fight it's own wars.
Is this an extension of the Greenham Common saga? ie we dont want nuclear missiles or other weapons of war on our soil but we would still like to be under the umbrella of NATO protection. I think there is some delusional ideology running amok amongst advocates of this line of thought that making the UK safe from nuclear strikes in a war would be eliminated if this were to happen.
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Old 11-23-2022, 04:36 AM
 
16,615 posts, read 8,625,712 times
Reputation: 19447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
What a load of nonsense or are you seriously suggesting that 90% of Northern Ireland were against reunification during the troubles or even more recently.
Before you declare something nonsense, you should have a good grasp, if not great knowledge of something to feel so brazen as to dismiss others.
Also, if you read what I said correctly, you would not see 90% against anywhere, rather that less than 10% were for unification when the poll was taken back in 2012 (7% among Catholics). At best it would be 19% if you include "Other" as a group combined with Catholics.
However, when additional questions were asked, such as unification in 20 years, the number jumped to 41% of Catholics, and 76% of everyone polled.

You can see and read the breakdown between Protestants, Catholics, and "other" in the following link;

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...le28759983.ece

Thus that article showing poll results from 10+ years ago shows how much things have changed.
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:43 AM
 
16,615 posts, read 8,625,712 times
Reputation: 19447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey_C_Earwicker View Post
Remarkably co-incidental to Trump claims.

The video producer PragerU, is a leading producer of false claims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU
For starters, Trump was never mentioned in that video, nor did it have anything to do with him. Also PragerU has been around well before Trump became a politician.

More importantly, Wiki is rubbish, so using them to try and discredit another online channel is beyond the pale.
The following are examples of how a libertarian and an investigative journalist for left leaning CBS have discovered how biased and false Wiki can be;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiRgJYMw6YA

This one covers several topics, but the Wiki part starts at about 3:55


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU

Or this more in depth one by the same award winning journalist;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwg2yQETiro

While I have not watched most of the PragerU videos (thus cannot account for their accuracy), I fact checked a couple of them (that were hard to believe), and they were spot on.
My point being that while some fraud occurs under the best of circumstances, certain practices lead to elections being stolen, which only emboldens those who would be inclined to cheat. But don't take my word for it alone, read the in-depth report created by former president Carter (D), who listed some of the things highlighted in the PragerU video, as means of fraud that needed to be stopped in 3rd world elections.

To the best of my knowledge the UK nor specifically NI have such shenanigans going on during their elections, which is a good thing.
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:51 AM
 
16,615 posts, read 8,625,712 times
Reputation: 19447
Quote:
Originally Posted by evening sun View Post
Tried to rep you again, but too soon.

I am so fed up of hearing about baseless fraud claims. I worked a few elections, & know it would not be as easy as some gullible people belive. And lets face it, if there really was widespread fraud, don't you think it would be in court now to prove it.

I am glad the UK polls seem to be more accurate.


With us both being American, our perspective on our own elections and polling has likely been rocked more than what goes on in NI.

Still I suspect polling is done by the media to manipulate public opinion, as human nature is wanting to be in the majority.
Back when the DUP & Sinn Fein were predicted via polling to overtake the UUP & SDLP respectively, it seemed hard to believe.
Yet that is what happened.
The UK press/polls got it wrong on Brexit, but maybe the polling is better in NI than most of the UK.
If so, I wonder why?
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:08 AM
 
474 posts, read 264,650 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
For starters, Trump was never mentioned in that video, nor did it have anything to do with him. Also PragerU has been around well before Trump became a politician.

More importantly, Wiki is rubbish, so using them to try and discredit another online channel is beyond the pale.
The following are examples of how a libertarian and an investigative journalist for left leaning CBS have discovered how biased and false Wiki can be;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiRgJYMw6YA

This one covers several topics, but the Wiki part starts at about 3:55


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU

Or this more in depth one by the same award winning journalist;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwg2yQETiro

While I have not watched most of the PragerU videos (thus cannot account for their accuracy), I fact checked a couple of them (that were hard to believe), and they were spot on.
My point being that while some fraud occurs under the best of circumstances, certain practices lead to elections being stolen, which only emboldens those who would be inclined to cheat. But don't take my word for it alone, read the in-depth report created by former president Carter (D), who listed some of the things highlighted in the PragerU video, as means of fraud that needed to be stopped in 3rd world elections.

To the best of my knowledge the UK nor specifically NI have such shenanigans going on during their elections, which is a good thing.
Although Trump was not mentioned, YOU claimed that unspecified *third-world shenanigans* had recently infiltrated US voting and attempted to back your claim up with a video from a highly suspect source.
That PragerU existed before Trump became a politician means nothing

I think you're dissembling. I drew the analogy with Trump, as is plain for everyone to see.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Trump has recently been making claims of voter fraud, and more.

Wiki itself says it's not a reliable source. That doesn't mean it's not the best source available

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...eliable_source

Sharyl Attkisson jumped the shark a long time ago. All her lawsuits have been kicked out.
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Old 11-24-2022, 01:10 PM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,037,971 times
Reputation: 9813
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Austen View Post
Is this an extension of the Greenham Common saga? ie we dont want nuclear missiles or other weapons of war on our soil but we would still like to be under the umbrella of NATO protection. I think there is some delusional ideology running amok amongst advocates of this line of thought that making the UK safe from nuclear strikes in a war is by creating a nuclear free zone. That will not happen
Well as a founding member of NATO I should think so too!

Shouldn't the UK expect protection from its own armed forces?
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