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Actually areas of immigrants such as Indian / Pakistani British people living in Birmingham, Bradford voted for Brexit. Lots of Indian, pakistani heritage people voted for Leave. I think that they were not voting against immigration but more due to competition of jobs with Eastern Europeans. If Brexit happens, more jobs will open up for them.
The same demographic also votes for Labour Party and support immigration but voted for Leave.
Places like Harrogate, York with less number of ethnic minorities such as Indian, Pakistani voted for remain.
Actually areas of immigrants such as Indian / Pakistani British people living in Birmingham, Bradford voted for Brexit. Lots of Indian, pakistani heritage people voted for Leave. I think that they were not voting against immigration but more due to competition of jobs with Eastern Europeans. If Brexit happens, more jobs will open up for them.
The same demographic also votes for Labour Party and support immigration but voted for Leave.
Places like Harrogate, York with less number of ethnic minorities such as Indian, Pakistani voted for remain.
You mean they want immigration, but not EU immigration because of job competition? So what immigration do they support? Ever more from India and Pakistan? They would, wouldn't they?
You mean they want immigration, but not EU immigration because of job competition? So what immigration do they support? Ever more from India and Pakistan? They would, wouldn't they?
Yes. I am trying to link immigration with Brexit. Brexit vote is not going to stop Non EU immigration into UK. I am assuming that most Brexit supporters would oppose non EU immigration too.
But the voting pattern of ethnic minorities like Indians, Pakistani who support immigration from their countries but not from EU is not talked about by anybody, no media outlet. They did vote in huge numbers for Brexit.
Yes. I am trying to link immigration with Brexit. Brexit vote is not going to stop Non EU immigration into UK. I am assuming that most Brexit supporters would oppose non EU immigration too.
But the voting pattern of ethnic minorities like Indians, Pakistani who support immigration from their countries but not from EU is not talked about by anybody, no media outlet. They did vote in huge numbers for Brexit.
You're making the common mistake in suggesting that people who voted for Brexit are against immigration.
I would suggest that most are perfectly happy with immigration provided the UK has control over who comes in and how many.
Mass immigration of low or non-skilled has provided few benefits for Britain and succeeds only in suppressing wage levels for those on the bottom end of the scale.
Highly-skilled workers on the other hand will still be welcomed provided they benefit the country's economy - the same immigration rules that apply to most leading non-EU economies.
This nation is becoming overcrowded and all those so-called liberal mindsets waffle on about constant welcomes. We are now well into the 60 millions part now and is expected to pass 70 million. Where the dashed nonsense are they all going to live? A lot of the incomers breed bigger families so there is the future. Health, housing and all sorts of financial problems. This a an island and not that damn big to keep coping with boosting population numers and the end of this century will be even worse
I was not surprised that London voters went for Remaining as it is a city that is no longer traditional English and the strains, and how violent that place is another nightmare. We used to be a country that could take in reasonable numers to a degree but now it is out of hand and we have divided cities, overcrowding and other negatives.
Anything could happen, but right now the odds favor a Hard Exit. However, it's my opinion that the EU will be more flexible in the last minute than Brexiters are saying. Moreover, it's not necessarily in the interests of the EC to see Labor regain power in the UK.
Anything could happen, but right now the odds favor a Hard Exit. However, it's my opinion that the EU will be more flexible in the last minute than Brexiters are saying. Moreover, it's not necessarily in the interests of the EC to see Labor regain power in the UK.
I think a hard Brexit is getting more likely. The EU can't be flexible. To do so would reward our vote, and leaving their little club. We have to be punished, and show other EU countries it isn't a good idea, so don't think of doing it yourselves.
Why do you believe it's not in the interests of the EU to see Labour regain power in the UK? If that was to happen, a second vote on EU membership is far more likely. This is what the EU is hoping for, that this will just go all away, and we will remain in the EU.
I think a hard Brexit is getting more likely. The EU can't be flexible. To do so would reward our vote, and leaving their little club. We have to be punished, and show other EU countries it isn't a good idea, so don't think of doing it yourselves.
Why do you believe it's not in the interests of the EU to see Labour regain power in the UK? If that was to happen, a second vote on EU membership is far more likely. This is what the EU is hoping for, that this will just go all away, and we will remain in the EU.
I'm not so sure on the flexible. With the real concerns of increased tariffs and import/export delays the EU may well suddenly become surprisingly flexible. That's not to say they will, but, the EU still answers to European governments as much as they like to think they don't, and EU governments are concerned about trade, then there's the €40B divorce bill to consider too.
I think the chances of a GE are pretty close to zero, even were it to happen, the ECJ has yet to rule that a country filing an Article 50 withdrawal can unilaterally revoke the filing, or even that there can be a mutual agreement between the parties it can be revoked. So even with Labor, a repeat referendum and an attempted revocation of the filing it's not a done deal, nor practically is there time, it's mid October, you'd need 2 months to arrange a GE, which puts it in mid Dec, that's not going to work, so mid Jan, then 2 months for a referendum mid March, IF it all went slick as snot.
I'm not so sure on the flexible. With the real concerns of increased tariffs and import/export delays the EU may well suddenly become surprisingly flexible. That's not to say they will, but, the EU still answers to European governments as much as they like to think they don't, and EU governments are concerned about trade, then there's the €40B divorce bill to consider too.
I think the chances of a GE are pretty close to zero, even were it to happen, the ECJ has yet to rule that a country filing an Article 50 withdrawal can unilaterally revoke the filing, or even that there can be a mutual agreement between the parties it can be revoked. So even with Labor, a repeat referendum and an attempted revocation of the filing it's not a done deal, nor practically is there time, it's mid October, you'd need 2 months to arrange a GE, which puts it in mid Dec, that's not going to work, so mid Jan, then 2 months for a referendum mid March, IF it all went slick as snot.
My $0.02 for what it's worth.
You're right Gungnir in European governments are concerned about trade. I don't know if there is any leaning going on behind the scenes on Tusk and Juncker. I saw a video of an MEP speaking to Juncker in the European Parliament, telling him if only there had been some restrictions imposed on movement rights, then the UK would have voted remain. Juncker remained silent. He knows this is probably true.
But, all we hear, is that this is one of the four pillars, and the EU will never stop free movement. I hear Theresa May say over and over again, free movement will cease once we leave the EU. They cannot give in on this issue, or most others they insist are sacrosanct. The EU have said over and over again, we can't have a free trade deal like EU members have, outside the EU. So what are they offering then, that we can accept?
May is insisting on sticking with her Chequers agreement. That would leave us tied to the EU, and never truly free of them. There is hostility, and anger about this in many a Tory heart. I really have no idea how this is all going to pan out by next March. If a General Election is forced, then anything can happen.
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Originally Posted by English Dave
You're right Gungnir in European governments are concerned about trade. I don't know if there is any leaning going on behind the scenes on Tusk and Juncker. I saw a video of an MEP speaking to Juncker in the European Parliament, telling him if only there had been some restrictions imposed on movement rights, then the UK would have voted remain. Juncker remained silent. He knows this is probably true.
But, all we hear, is that this is one of the four pillars, and the EU will never stop free movement. I hear Theresa May say over and over again, free movement will cease once we leave the EU. They cannot give in on this issue, or most others they insist are sacrosanct. The EU have said over and over again, we can't have a free trade deal like EU members have, outside the EU. So what are they offering then, that we can accept?
May is insisting on sticking with her Chequers agreement. That would leave us tied to the EU, and never truly free of them. There is hostility, and anger about this in many a Tory heart. I really have no idea how this is all going to pan out by next March. If a General Election is forced, then anything can happen.
What they are offering is that we stay in the Customs Union after the March 29th 2019 Brexit for as yet an undisclosed period.
They are using the Northern Ireland border as a reason that we need to stay in the Customs Union until a solution can be worked out.
However remaining in the Customs Union will prevent us from making tade deals with other countries.
Whilst Project Fear is now in full swing again, with reports of all kinds of nonsense from Eurostar trains not being able to run, to power to Northern Ireland being stopped etc.
It's clear we are not going to get anywhere with Tusk, Juncker or Barnier, so just go for a hard Brexit and leave all other security and defence agreements, as we can not be expected to have such agreements with people we can't trade freely with.
We will save £40 Billion, be able to trade freely with the rest of the world and the EU under WTO rules and we can use some border technology in relation to the Northern Irish boder, which the EU have tried to make in to a big issue when it isn't. Borders between non EU and EU countries work perfectly well in other parts of Europe such as Switzerland.
What will happen - in my opinion even if we reach an agreement it won't get through the UK Parliament and we need to just accept a hard brexit, however if the EU tries to punish us they are the ones who have the massive trade surplus and the they won't be getting any money from us, whilst there may be future changes to Britains' foreign policy and defence/securitypolicy in the longer term.
Last edited by Brave New World; 10-14-2018 at 06:35 AM..
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