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Well, I'm pretty far from Pittsburgh now, 1500 miles away. Most of what I know about what's going on there comes from CD and my brother. I was mostly thinking about this issue that it's "the system" that drove people to the suburbs. I don't think this is true in that city, esp. now when the city population is less than half of what it was at its peak. It has the infrastructure to handle a lot more people. Another thing it wasn't is "white flight", as Pittsburgh is still one of the "whitest" cities in the US.
Pittsburgh never had a tremendous non-white population in the first place. What happened in Baltimore is the suburbs flourished while the city declined; I think the fate of the suburbs and city were more linked together in Pittsburgh in its decline.
Maybe I'm missing something...Pittsburgh's dramatic loss of population over the past 50 years is proof that people aren't moving to the suburbs?
Yes, you are missing something. In Pittsburgh anyway, there is no evidence that "the system" forced people to move to the suburbs. There is ample housing, now vacant and in many cases in disrepair, to house twice the number of people who live there.
Is this a strawman? I can't find the OP about "the system." What exactly are you arguing here?
Now don't be cute here, HandsUp. Surely you remember that whole series of posts about suburbs being immoral, but not the people who live there (!) b/c it's the "system" that forces people to move to the burbs, followed by how expensive it is to live in some cities b/c all the housing is already being rented, yada, yada.
Now don't be cute here, HandsUp. Surely you remember that whole series of posts about suburbs being immoral, but not the people who live there (!) b/c it's the "system" that forces people to move to the burbs, followed by how expensive it is to live in some cities b/c all the housing is already being rented, yada, yada.
You keep throwing "the system" in quotes but I don't remember it being referred to as such. I think there are a lot of reasons the suburbs grew in popularity, as have been identified by many posters here, yourself included.
You seem to be referencing one reason, then trying to say that this is so often referenced that it could be called "the system." I just don't think this argument is as ubiquitous as you are making it out to be.
Stating that there are vacant homes in Pittsburgh as evidence that "the system" isn't universal seems like a strawman to me, because "the system" is something you have created!
Now don't be cute here, HandsUp. Surely you remember that whole series of posts about suburbs being immoral, but not the people who live there (!) b/c it's the "system" that forces people to move to the burbs, followed by how expensive it is to live in some cities b/c all the housing is already being rented, yada, yada.
It's only too expensive to live in the city where the city has gentrified. Some cities like NYC, San Fran, Boston, etc. have gentrified and become nice urban areas that are under high demand. However, the market of home buyers doesn't just take off. Crime, schools, unkept housing stocks, bad neighborhoods, cities/neighborhoods with bad reputations are all things that these places have to overcome before they become liveable and expensive. This requires decades of reinvestment, urban pioneering, community building, marketing, etc. to happen. It's also an uphill battle because taxes are higher in many of these cities because of the vacancy.
Wow, it's almost as though it was not possible to judge all cities by the same metric--what an enormous surprise. Some cities shrank over the past 50 years and others grew, based largely on whether or not they were able to annex nearby suburbs. Rust Belt and eastern cities generally shrank, while Sun Belt and western cities generally grew, but in both cases suburbanization was the cause, facilitated by policies that promoted suburbanization and left a lot of cities either hollow in the middle or hypertrophied but not nearly as dense.
Wow, it's almost as though it was not possible to judge all cities by the same metric--what an enormous surprise. Some cities shrank over the past 50 years and others grew, based largely on whether or not they were able to annex nearby suburbs. Rust Belt and eastern cities generally shrank, while Sun Belt and western cities generally grew, but in both cases suburbanization was the cause, facilitated by policies that promoted suburbanization and left a lot of cities either hollow in the middle or hypertrophied but not nearly as dense.
Perhaps this will lead to the destruction of excess housing, thus creating the possibility of a suburban lifestyle..within the confines of the old city. If you have a street loaded with boarded-up housing, but in close proximity to other housing, then just raize the unoccupied homes, plant some new grass and trees, and pave over some of the remaining land for driveways, and volia!...instant suburbia. This will certainly lure those out in exurbia to become "urban pioneers"...
Perhaps this will lead to the destruction of excess housing, thus creating the possibility of a suburban lifestyle..within the confines of the old city. If you have a street loaded with boarded-up housing, but in close proximity to other housing, then just raize the unoccupied homes, plant some new grass and trees, and pave over some of the remaining land for driveways, and volia!...instant suburbia. This will certainly lure those out in exurbia to become "urban pioneers"...
Been tried here, with questionable success.
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