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I own a four square, and it's about 1,400 sq ft. The basement isn't finished, but it's not really a finishable basement (drain in the middle, with inward tilted floors, etc). The attic is most certainly not finishable; ceiling is a little too low and you'd have to figure out how to create another staircase, which would be really difficult. The 1,400 sq ft includes a small addition someone put on the back (sun room), so it used to be closer to 1,200 sq. ft. Most of the four squares I've seen have been of a similar size, so I'd be really surprised if anyone could get a standard four square up to 3,000+ square feet without adding a big addition on the back. Even then, you'd have to finish the basement and attic too...I'm far from an expert on other four squares, but just my 2 cents.
None of that addresses the materials included in the build of some of these older houses (all plaster walls, full masonry).
Note: There was another thread about how much room people have per person (sq ft). Even if you have two children, 3,000 square feet is a lot of space (750 sq ft per person). My wife and I are looking to downsize in our impending move. We currently have around 700 sq. ft per person and it's just too much space for us (rooms that don't get used). 3,000 sq. ft may not seem like a lot of space for someone with four children plus pets.
A roughly 30 by 30 foot foursquare with attic dormers seems pretty common around here. that is 900 per floor with 2 floors, 1 basement minus furnace room, and 1 attic to make around 3500
3500 is really not too much space for a family of four if the family has hobbies, my family of four uses 3900 and we still feel cramped some times. consider the space taken up by a piano, a pool table, a drum set and guitars, mixing board and synthesizers, a place to build and display lego creations and train sets, for miniature gaming and arts and crafts, workout equipment, home office, I could easily use 7000 square feet if I could afford it. I'd rather my kids have space to have hobbies than just sit in front of the tv or holed up in their rooms.
A roughly 30 by 30 foot foursquare with attic dormers seems pretty common around here. that is 900 per floor with 2 floors, 1 basement minus furnace room, and 1 attic to make around 3500
Here's another big foursquare that's around 2,500 square feet. I suppose you could get it up to 3,000+ sq feet if you finished the basement and attic, but I don't think this is the average size of these types of houses:
You know if you count a finished basement new single family homes in some areas go for as low as 250,000 for 3500 square feet. Are they mcmansions? 3500 is not that much space considering real mansions are more like 10000. A 1900s 4 square is going to be 3500 as well with basement and attic bonus room, I doubt anyone here is considering that as a mcmansion. What people here really don't seem to like is actually just 'new houses'.
Small new houses have all the same aspects of large new houses except that the owners wish they could afford more space.
And as for those saying they all look the same and are too cookie cutter, that is b.s. as well because i don't see them levying those complaints against the san francisco painted ladies for example, which are pretty much carbon clones of each other all the way down the block (or any other cities celebrated historic row houses).
If you really just hate new houses that is fine, but stop trying to push it on only upper middle class houses saying 'they are too big' 'they copy tired old architectural styles' 'they mimic mansions' because your queen annes, 4 squares, and tudors all did the same things 100 years ago, only for styles and mansions 100 years before them. Such dis-ingeniousness certainly raises suspicion of jealousy or resentment towards a segment of the upper middle class.
I really don't like most new houses, regardless of size. But I don't call all new houses McMansions. I wouldn't even call all new large houses McMansions. For me, it depends on context, materials, and aesthetics. For example, in a neighborhood of 1960's 3BR 1500s.f. ranch houses, did someone build a 5 bedroom 3000s.f. 2 story house in a poorly proportioned queen-ann style, using stick-on plastic ornamentation?
I really don't like most new houses, regardless of size. But I don't call all new houses McMansions. I wouldn't even call all new large houses McMansions. For me, it depends on context, materials, and aesthetics. For example, in a neighborhood of 1960's 3BR 1500s.f. ranch houses, did someone build a 5 bedroom 3000s.f. 2 story house in a poorly proportioned queen-ann style, using stick-on plastic ornamentation?
Good for the owner of the 2 story house in a poorly proportioned queen-ann using stick-on plastic ornamentation. He wanted a queen anne of a comfortable size with his favorite types of ornamentation, but sadly he couldn't afford it. Did he dutifully plug into his assigned cookie cutter neighborhood in a house of an unassuming size and design like a sap? No he said 'ill damn-well build my dream home in the neighborhood i can afford with the level of quality i can afford and i don't damn-well care who likes it or not.' Is he acting 'too big for his britches'? perhaps he is in your eyes but good for him.
i think most people like mcmansions, but it depends on where its located. Urbanist on this forum rail against them because you find a lot of them in low density suburbs. Put those same mcmansions in the heart of city, or high denisty area and watch how they'll talk about their beautiful design and that it makes for pleasant scenery.
I don't like living in big mcmansion size houses. they give me the creeps.
and all that space is just wasted. mcmansions are a pointless waste of land and resources. they waste energy because they promote auto-sprawl, nonstop driving and obesity. great amounts of energy are also eaten up to heat and cool them. they are bad for the environment, they create greenhouse gases, promote sprawl, etc. I could go on, but there is simply nothing good about them.
Good for the owner of the 2 story house in a poorly proportioned queen-ann using stick-on plastic ornamentation. He wanted a queen anne of a comfortable size with his favorite types of ornamentation, but sadly he couldn't afford it. Did he dutifully plug into his assigned cookie cutter neighborhood in a house of an unassuming size and design like a sap? No he said 'ill damn-well build my dream home in the neighborhood i can afford with the level of quality i can afford and i don't damn-well care who likes it or not.' Is he acting 'too big for his britches'? perhaps he is in your eyes but good for him.
Hey, I never said they couldn't build a cheap imitation of their dream home, if that's what they wanted. Like you said, more power to them. (unless they're in a historic district or HOA, where standards have been set for what the neighborhood should look like)
Those people who buy the Chinese copy of a Rolls Royce might love their car, too. But it is still a cheap imitation of the real thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55
i think most people like mcmansions, but it depends on where its located. Urbanist on this forum rail against them because you find a lot of them in low density suburbs. Put those same mcmansions in the heart of city, or high denisty area and watch how they'll talk about their beautiful design and that it makes for pleasant scenery.
IMO, this house was "McMansion-ized." Judging by the comments on that site, and in the ugly house thread on this site, I don't think anyone likes this better just because it's in an urban neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFi
Unless they were made 100 years ago, then you love them right?
Can you provide some examples of what you'd consider a McMansion from 100 years ago? (that hasn't been the victim of a remodeling/butchering like the house above)
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