Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm not sure, but right now in San Antonio, TX, the public bus company here is trying to spend something like $92 million on a street car system downtown. I hope it doesn't happen. Going to look into how I (and others) can stop it. We could use $92 million to do a whole lot of good downtown. We already have a "street car" system (basicly buses that look like street cars) downtown. They are cute. No on seems to ride them very often. Downtown here is pretty lame. Most of the buildings are empty. All of these apartments are being built around downtown, but they don't even have as much as a grocery store downtown. It's a huge waste of money. They seem to think if they build this downtown that somethings going to change. It's a mess.
It is easy for cities to get the transport wrong, and every dollar spent on a streetcar is not money well-spent.
What do you suggest doing to revive downtown?
You say: "All of these apartments are being built around downtown" - and that makes me think that density is increasing, and that may be an important step in reviving the downtown area.
Who is risking their capital on those buildings and why?
Toronto, Ontario, has a transit system that combines street cars ( we never got rid of them, smart us ) buses, and a multi line underground subway system. It moves over a MILLION riders a day, and is the safest public transit system in North America.
It is clean, safe and grafitti free. All street cars, buses and subway cars have colour CCTV cameras with sound recording ability, that feed to a on board hard drive. Transit drivers are expected to be helpful and polite and can be reported to the TTC, by any member of the public. Their starting hourly wage is $23.50 an hour., rising to over $30 an hour after 4 years of employment, plus a very generous benefit package, and of course universal health care coverage for them and their family.
.
Electric street cars here are modern and effective, and capable of carrying about 200 riders, when a "double car " arrangement is used. Two blocks from my house, on St Clair Avenue, the street cars operate on a 5 minute schedule, and each transit shelter has an electronic sign that displays the current time, and WHEN the next car will arrive at that stop.
That system is city wide and is also installed on all subway platforms, so that the next train arrival time is easy to see. It cost the city NOTHING, as the entire cost was paid for by a private advertising company, that has a five year contract, to allow it to show live TV news, on all the screens, while at the same time, showing the schedulew and arrival times, on a split screen. Their ad revenue covers all the costs on installation and up keep.
The adult cash fare is $3.00 for any trip that takes less than 2 hours. A monthly 24 hour pass is $125.00 a month, and can be loaned by the holder, to another person, if needed, that day. About 60 precent of TTC riders use a monthly pass. Single use fares can be cash, or by a ticket, purchased at a corner store agent seller, or by metal token, also sold at corner stores. Students get reduced fares, high school students pay $2.00 per trip or can buy a student pass for a monthly cost of $106.00. Photo ID is required to use student tickets or passes.
Here is a link to some photos of TTC street cars and subway cars.
I wouldn't call it "social" Unless you knew the other travelers...I would call it economical where it makes sense. Its hardly a "Musical".
Most PT is a shame here in the US...and ridden with homeless and other ppl up to no good. (Of course if you never rode one in Florida you have no idea what I am talking about.
It used to be a very nice way to commute considering that is environmentally friendly being electric.
But do you really think Boston would be better off without them?
And if so, what instead?
Yes, a Green Line SUBWAY or EL. Bury it or build the EL along the same right-of-way as the current Green Line. Shrink the number of stops on the western lines by 80% and raise the speed of the whole system. Automate the line to get rid of expensive and dangerous drivers (who have crashed in the current system while texting, injuring riders). Chiefly; make it grade-separated so it doesn't ever have to interface with car/bike/bus traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen
The adult cash fare is $3.00 for any trip that takes less than 2 hours. A monthly 24 hour pass is $125.00 a month, and can be loaned by the holder, to another person, if needed, that day. About 60 precent of TTC riders use a monthly pass. Single use fares can be cash, or by a ticket, purchased at a corner store agent seller, or by metal token, also sold at corner stores. Students get reduced fares, high school students pay $2.00 per trip or can buy a student pass for a monthly cost of $106.00. Photo ID is required to use student tickets or passes.
I hope that's Canadian Dollars! $3 per ride?! NYC subways are only $2.50. If I have a "carpool" of 2 people in Boston, it's usually more economical, and almost always faster to drive. At $3 a ride, that's even worse!
That said, I hope gas goes up to $8 a gallon or more so it will be worth it to take public transit. As much as I hate driving, I'll suffer through it to save $5 and 30mins when going out with one or more other people.
Yes, a Green Line SUBWAY or EL. Bury it or build the EL along the same right-of-way as the current Green Line. Shrink the number of stops on the western lines by 80% and raise the speed of the whole system. Automate the line to get rid of expensive and dangerous drivers (who have crashed in the current system while texting, injuring riders). Chiefly; make it grade-separated so it doesn't ever have to interface with car/bike/bus traffic.
The problem with that idea is that there is a very substantial difference between the cost of Light Rail(streetcars), on a street previously constructed, vs. a fully-tunnelled subway, built essentially from scratch (Anybody remember the "Big Dig"?), or even grade-separated, whichwould probably involve the acquisiting of new property and an outbreak ofthe notorious Not-in-My-Back-Yard syndrome.
Further evidence that economic ignorance, coupled with the desiire for simple answers, lies at the root of most of the probems and differences expressed here.
Busses are not faster and they are not smother then a streetcar. Obviously you have never ever ridden a streetcar. Pavement is not smother then rails. Streetcars have priority over other traffic. Therefore they are not subject to the delays that busses are. Streetcars are still much more efficient then busses with ability to move large numbers of people quickly. The only reason most cities got rid of them was to make more room for private automobiles.
If they travel off of the street, or have their own lane, then are they really street cars? That sounds more like light rail. Its not very fair to compare a bus that has to travel in a normal lane with a street car that gets its own lane. What I'm talking about is if you compare a street car that travels on a regular street with a bus, then the bus would in most cases be faster. A bus lane would mean much lower infrastructure costs, greater flexibility and a higher average speed.
The problem with that idea is that there is a very substantial difference between the cost of Light Rail(streetcars), on a street previously constructed, vs. a fully-tunnelled subway, built essentially from scratch (Anybody remember the "Big Dig"?), or even grade-separated, whichwould probably involve the acquisiting of new property and an outbreak ofthe notorious Not-in-My-Back-Yard syndrome.
Further evidence that economic ignorance, coupled with the desiire for simple answers, lies at the root of most of the probems and differences expressed here.
Ok, you're right. Don't change anything. The patchwork quilt of Boston is perfect, just the way it is, stuck in the 19X0's. The up-front investment in improving and automating infrastructure CLEARLY isn't worth the long-term cost savings of the system.
How much does the metro rail cost again? What about when diesel fuel triples in price? What % of those ultra-heavy rolling stock cars are typically filled with passengers? What's the cost of the conductors who take cash on board and punch holes in PAPER TICKETS? How many Green Line trolleys needed to be towed this year? What's the cost of the 2nd driver reading the newspaper in each of the 2nd cars? How long does it take to ride the system end-to-end?
I recognize that building a subway line or an EL is expensive and aggravates the NIMBY's, yet earthquake-prone "car-capitol" LA manages dig one under the most expensive NIMBY neighborhoods in town (Purple Line). But I guess that's the difference between a city stuck in the past and one which is working on adapting to the future. I certainly know where I'd rather live.
If it wasn't a disaster, then why are we now spending billions of dollars trying to repair the damage? Why did LA go from being a beautiful, clean, non-congested city with highly efficient rail system, to a smog polluted, congested hellhole that takes hours to get anywhere?
If it wasn't a disaster, then why are we now spending billions of dollars trying to repair the damage? Why did LA go from being a beautiful, clean, non-congested city with highly efficient rail system, to a smog polluted, congested hellhole that takes hours to get anywhere?
Right.
The car-dependent living arrangement with few or no attractive outdoor public spaces killed the city (as it did in Detroit) and left it mostly "a city that no one cared about"
If it wasn't a disaster, then why are we now spending billions of dollars trying to repair the damage? Why did LA go from being a beautiful, clean, non-congested city with highly efficient rail system, to a smog polluted, congested hellhole that takes hours to get anywhere?
Repair the damage? What damage? Can you show me pictures of the damage?
There was no damage. People began turning away from street cars to buses and automobiles. The city responded accordingly. Congestion increased because population increased. Every city has to deal with this issue.
Geologic: You're really stating that "car-dependent living arrangement with few or no attractive outdoor public spaces" killed Detroit?
Really?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
