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Old 01-17-2014, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,550,732 times
Reputation: 7830

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
In the country of Singapore chewing gum was banned in 1992 because vandals thought it was funny to stick gum on the door sensors in the computer-operated subway, disrupting servce. Singaporeans think having the trains run on time is more important that their right to buy and consume chewing gum for pleasure (therapeutic chewing gum is legal and strictly controlled).

Enthusiasm for public transit goes hand-in-hand with enthusiasm for doing as you're told.

Until the post-War era, Americans pretty much did as they were told. They took the trolley, the train, or the bus wherever they went. Now everyone drives are car and flips the bird at poor folks who take the bus (exception: Rich guys take the train to Manhattan from the bedroom communities of New Jersey).

Think about Japan, China, and Europe. People in those countries pretty much do what they are told to do.
This is just nonsense, people didn't own cars pre-war era because people couldn't afford cars. Personally vehicle technology isn't that old and in the beginning only those with money could afford them.

Also it is very rude to flip people off for taking transit, does that mean they should flip you off when they pass you as you sit in traffic?
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,550,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv101 View Post
Portland's public transit system is in the process of being slashed thanks to abysmal ridership when compared to the expense incurred in building it and the revenue it generates as demographer Joel Kotkin pointed out recently in the Orange County Register.

The answer to the thread title is no; SF, DC, Boston, Chicago & NYC all have successful transit systems with rail serving as the backbone due to density, as well as the fact that folks of all income levels ride the rails in those cities daily as opposed to here in LA, where the overwhelming majority of metro riders live in near-poverty level, with an average income of around $18K.
Portland's transit system isn't in the process of being slashed and their ridership numbers are not abysmal. Not sure where you get your information but it is wrong.
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,685,445 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Portland's transit system isn't in the process of being slashed and their ridership numbers are not abysmal. Not sure where you get your information but it is wrong.
It is not wrong. Please supply links to indicate it is thriving and where the previous poster is wrong in his comments.

The service has been declining for years and there has been a public outcry that has finally made TriMet sit up and take notice. We have been promised that some of the many cutbacks in bus service will be restored this year. So even they are now admitting to a problem. It is true they have also added new buses but these replace old ones that no longer can be of service. So, yes, these are improvements but they will have to go much farther to restore the system to what it once was.

Right now, the emphasis is on costly light rails from a suburb that doesn't want it and a shiny new streetcar that will only serve a portion of a small area while the majority of the city is still without the good bus service it once had while other parts of the city remains making do with the poor bus service it always had to put up with.

Much of what we have is geared toward the downtown area and commuters during rush hour with little or no thought those who need public transportation throughout the day. You can see the link to OPAL for more information on this.

I have been riding TriMet steadily for nearly 35 years as one who has depended solely on it since I have never owned a car. That is where my information comes from, as an actual TriMet transit rider. What was once a great system is now a helter skelter scramble with unfinished train tracks due to lack of funds and ever shrinking bus routes.

Here is an interesting interview by Jeff Gianola of channel six's KOIN and Neil McFarlane, TriMet's general manager, that attests to some of the problems. Our local newspaper, especially the free press has had many articles about this same topic and the mismanagement of Tri Met when it comes to serving the needs of the people. Also a link to OPAL, a group of people who actually ride the buses and trains on a daily basis and not only for commuting purposes just as people do in cities where the public transportation system works as it is supposed to as it once did here.

http://www.opalpdx.org/

TriMet execs receive hidden raises, while fares go up

Portland covers both the OP's questions. It is considered left-wing and has taken millions from the government to build its shiny trains and streetcars that serve only a portion of its citizens.
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:47 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,991 posts, read 42,018,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
It is not wrong. Please supply links to indicate it is thriving and where the previous poster is wrong in his comments.

The service has been declining for years and there has been a public outcry that has finally made TriMet sit up and take notice. We have been promised that some of the many cutbacks in bus service will be restored this year. So even they are now admitting to a problem. It is true they have also added new buses but these replace old ones that no longer can be of service. So, yes, these are improvements but they will have to go much farther to restore the system to what it once was.
See here [a blog post a Portland transit planner]


That was the year that TriMet cut all-day frequencies below the 15-minute threshhold that is widely accepted as the definition of "frequent enough that you can use it spontaneously, without building your life around the timetable." Since the grid relies on easy connections to achieve its goal of easy anywhere-to-anywhere access, the 2009 cuts began to undermine the whole idea of the grid. TriMet avoided doing this in its first round of cutting after the crash, but felt it had no alternative in the second 2009 round.


Human Transit: portland: the grid is 30 years old ... thank a planner!
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,685,445 times
Reputation: 35449
I remember back in the 80's when TriMet advertised getting downtown on the major routes during rush hour in seven minutes and during off hours in fifteen. Those small routes covered more territory so people didn't have to walk a mile to the nearest bus stop. The SW side of town past Hillsdale has always had terrible service. I lived there for a time but moved to the SE because of the excellent service that once was. And when they took out those so-called "overlapping" routes which is the same baloney they still say today "overlapping, don't need it" they remove routes that cause people to have to sometimes walk long distances to the nearest stop. Many who are elderly or in wheelchairs; the very people who depend upon public transportation.

This happened in Beaverton when MAX came in and a bus stop in front of an old folks home was removed. Tri Met thinking only of commuters who would drive to a Park'n Ride for MAX didn't foresee the elderly people who relied on that bus stop to get downtown or shopping or doctor's appointments. In order to get to the next nearest bus stop or MAX they had to cross a busy street. Some of them couldn't sprint fast enough and there were some accidents. Eventually they got their original bus stop back but only after their plight made the news.

The human factor is frequently overlooked.

I think the changes began when MAX was first introduced and slowly picked up steam as time went by. There is no doubt that bus routes were removed even in areas where MAX did not run. Ask any frequent rider. For a long time now, it hasn't been only how long does it take, but can you get there?

I actually have an old bus route pamphlet for 1978 when I first moved here. In comparison to today's schedules, more territory is covered. All those extra gridlines meant more coverage. I guess it meant more streamlining to the urban planners but I would rather there would be a bus that takes a half hour than no bus at all.

Regarding transfers crosstown 75. So I live on what is considered a major bus line. If I want to get to the nearest medical complex it's four miles away and takes about fifteen-twenty minutes by car. By bus, it takes three of them and using the time tables, it can take up to an hour and a half with transfers and waiting times. The bus schedules are not synced. If you missed one you wait a minimum of 15 minutes. Miss the next connection and it's another 15 minutes that is if you are lucky because those 15 minutes are usually longer. That's why most people drive, like the urban planners who decide these things.

I am glad we have some type of public transportation because I know many cities don't have any at all. But let's be real about what we do have. I would like to see everyone who touts TriMet as the best as many do, depend upon it as their sole means of transportation for six months and then get back to me with their opinions. Until then, I will thank nobody for it.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:42 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
Reputation: 33083
Statewide transportation sales tax measure MPACT 64 won't move forward in 2014 - Boulder Daily Camera

Please note comments. It will be a cold day in H*ll when Boulder County, CO gets rail transit.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Northville, MI
11,882 posts, read 11,179,314 times
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Usually its Left.

Right wingers are typically buddies with CEO's of oil companies. They love the rich. Economically, they are perfect, but everything must be done for profit. The word non profit is a crime for them , hence public transit makes no sense. After all, they make jobs to reduce unemployment, so that's what ultimately matters.

Left wingers are said to benefit the poor, usually at the expense of middle class tax money. They overtax industries and force them out of state. They increase gun restrictions on law abiding citizens to protect criminals, and make life for the middle class law abiding citizen uncomfortable. However, Public transit is one aspect I like about left wingers. It not only benefits the poor, but also middle class residents.

Additionally, in a densely populated state like NJ with over crowded roads, public transit, especially in the form of commuter railroads are an essential component of the transportation network. I cant handle driving in some NJ roads like Route 9 and Route 206. I would really appreciate a commuter railroad alternative to these congested roadways. West Trenton line parallel to 206 is a necessity for the state at current, and MUST START SOON. Else all of us will be sitting in 1 hour jams to go 15 miles on a daily basis .
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:55 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,991 posts, read 42,018,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi from the Brunswicks View Post
Additionally, in a densely populated state like NJ with over crowded roads, public transit, especially in the form of commuter railroads are an essential component of the transportation network. I cant handle driving in some NJ roads like Route 9 and Route 206. I would really appreciate a commuter railroad alternative to these congested roadways. West Trenton line parallel to 206 is a necessity for the state at current, and MUST START SOON. Else all of us will be sitting in 1 hour jams to go 15 miles on a daily basis .
The problem is for NJ, in most cases commuter rail is used to go in and out Manhattan, it has little impact on inter NJ trips (except for people going to downtown Newark). Most offices and shopping aren't along a rail line, and few are going to use the train rather than drive. Metro North attracts some suburb to suburb rides, I'm not sure if NJ Transit does but I suspect not.
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,519,549 times
Reputation: 15955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
In the country of Singapore chewing gum was banned in 1992 because vandals thought it was funny to stick gum on the door sensors in the computer-operated subway, disrupting service. Singaporeans think having the trains run on time is more important that their right to buy and consume chewing gum for pleasure (therapeutic chewing gum is legal and strictly controlled).

Enthusiasm for public transit goes hand-in-hand with enthusiasm for doing as you're told.

Until the post-War era, Americans pretty much did as they were told. They took the trolley, the train, or the bus wherever they went. Now everyone drives are car and flips the bird at poor folks who take the bus (exception: Rich guys take the train to Manhattan from the bedroom communities of New Jersey).

Think about Japan, China, and Europe. People in those countries pretty much do what they are told to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
This is just nonsense, people didn't own cars pre-war era because people couldn't afford cars. Personally vehicle technology isn't that old and in the beginning only those with money could afford them.

Also it is very rude to flip people off for taking transit, does that mean they should flip you off when they pass you as you sit in traffic?
Sorry. but the upper" poster has hit the ball head-on -- and put it way up in the cheap seats. Anyone who has worked in high-volume industrial or distribution operations within the past few years knows that the pressure to "dumb them down and speed them up" has been slowly intensifying (and never retreating) since the mid 1980's. And gaining knowledge and control of an employee's means of getting to and from work is just one more step in the process.

Whether you call it "scientific management", "Taylorism" or just "standardized work", the springs are being wound just a little tighter every day. It doesn't matter who's in control of Congress or the White House, and the (hypothetical) pursuit of "continuous improvement" will keep the safety valves tied down until some extraneous event forces us all to step back and think. We can only hope that that event doesn't involve a lot of people getting hurt -- or worse.

And I have no idea how to empower the individual when both sides in the Potomac power-game have fooled too many of us into believing they serve or protect some imagined "greater good".

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 01-18-2014 at 03:56 AM..
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,337,702 times
Reputation: 3562
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Sorry. but the upper" poster has hit the ball head-on -- and put it way up in the cheap seats. Anyone who has worked in high-volume industrial or distribution operations within the past few years knows that the pressure to "dumb them down and speed them up" has been slowly intensifying (and never retreating) since the mid 1980's. And gaining knowledge and control of an employee's means of getting to and from work is just one more step in the process.

Whether you call it "scientific management", "Taylorism" or just "standardized work", the springs are being wound just a little tighter every day. It doesn't matter who's in control of Congress or the White House, and the (hypothetical) pursuit of "continuous improvement" will keep the safety valves tied down until some extraneous event forces us all to step back and think. We can only hope that that event doesn't involve a lot of people getting hurt -- or worse.

And I have no idea how to empower the individual when both sides in the Potomac power-game have fooled too many of us into believing they serve or protect some imagined "greater good".
And you don't think that GPS devices in cars, extensive amounts of traffic cameras, EZ-Pass, the high expense of owning and maintaining a car, rising gas prices, parking technology, increasing traffic violations and regulations, etc. impact non-transit transportation? How is all transportation not under the same assault?
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