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GDP-PPP per Capita (almost twice as high):
$73,012 Seattle
$44,337 Vancouver
Total GDP:
$267b Seattle
$110b Vancouver
Manufacturing:
14.7% of GDP Seattle
6.8% of GDP Vancouver
Seattle's economy is closer to Toronto's ($276b) in size, and is a larger manufacturer too.
Vancouver's economy is like 2007 Miami's economy; very little value added jobs, just low paying trickle-down service sector jobs servicing the wealthy condo owners and construction jobs in one of the world's largest property bubbles. GDP per head in Vancouver is on par with the poorer US metros like San Antonio and Tampa.
Yet people still keep moving there in droves, population growing at 5.9% between 2001-6, and 4.4% between 2006-11 (and this is just for city of Vancouver, excluding metros).
Also, GDP per capita is kind of a moot stat. It's probably much more relevant to look at median income:
Seattle Metro: $65,677 USD (2012) Vancouver Metro: $71,140 CAD, or $69,717 USD at 2012 CAD-USD exchange rates.
Also, comparing Seattle's "Metro Area GDP" to the "City of Toronto's GDP" is bit unfair, don't you think? I believe your Seattle GDP figure also includes the City of Tacoma, and the City of Bellevue, if I'm not mistaken - Seattle GDP posts strong showing | Jon Talton | Seattle Times
Yet people still keep moving there in droves, population growing at 5.9% between 2001-6, and 4.4% between 2006-11 (and this is just for city of Vancouver, excluding metros).
Also, GDP per capita is kind of a moot stat. It's probably much more relevant to look at median income:
Seattle Metro: $65,677 USD (2012) Vancouver Metro: $71,140 CAD, or $69,717 USD at 2012 CAD-USD exchange rates.
Also, comparing Seattle's "Metro Area GDP" to the "City of Toronto's GDP" is bit unfair, don't you think? I believe your Seattle GDP figure also includes the City of Tacoma, and the City of Bellevue, if I'm not mistaken - Seattle GDP posts strong showing | Jon Talton | Seattle Times
Miami had strong population growth too, but it is like Vancouver in that the wealth there is imported from wealthy outsiders trickling down and construction/blowing property bubbles. Seattle's wealth is home grown from high-tech high value-added industries.
In 2012 the Canadian dollar was worth more than the US dollar and was grossly overvalued. 2012 Vancouver was bar none the most expensive place on earth. Today the CAD is worth about 80 cents, and even at that level it's still overvalued on PPP terms.
It's not comparing the City of Toronto to the Seattle metro area it's comparing metro areas.
Demographia has seattle metro's Median income at $68,800, and Vancouver at $66,400 CAD (~$53,000 US) Of course taxes are lower and the cost of living are lower in Seattle. And of course a lot more people in Seattle can afford a house and build equity unlike in Vancouver where real-estate prices have rocketed into fantasy-land.
Also, comparing Seattle's "Metro Area GDP" to the "City of Toronto's GDP" is bit unfair, don't you think? I believe your Seattle GDP figure also includes the City of Tacoma, and the City of Bellevue, if I'm not mistaken - Seattle GDP posts strong showing | Jon Talton | Seattle Times
City of Toronto doesn't have 6 million people. It's the metro area.
City of Toronto doesn't have 6 million people. It's the metro area.
I would say you'd need to use at the very minimum the Greater Toronto Area GDP versus Seattle Tacoma Bellevue metro GDP.. To provide some perpective on areas..
this covers an astoundingly large 5873 sq miles...
I don't know where or why the Brookings institute would compare that to Toronto's 6 million CMA.. There are 6 million people in the Toronto CMA which is not its metro in the U.S sense it is much smaller.. If we use the Greater Toronto area there are 6.5 million people..
The GTA fits 6.5 million people in 2750 sq miles as a comparison - almost half the size of Seattle Tacoma bellevue metro.. heck - if we ballooned out to 5873 sq miles we'd probably engulf other cities in our 'American' style hyperinflated metro case scenario..
The Brookings institute is a private American think tank that doesn't understand the difference between the metro areas of countries outside of the United States vs those within.. I have every faith in its ability to compare GDP of metro areas within the U.S but outside I have much less faith!
Demographia has seattle metro's Median income at $68,800, and Vancouver at $66,400 CAD (~$53,000 US) Of course taxes are lower and the cost of living are lower in Seattle. And of course a lot more people in Seattle can afford a house and build equity unlike in Vancouver where real-estate prices have rocketed into fantasy-land.
BK had a good point though - median income does make things more even than simply Per cap when it somes to the majority... the U.S always does better than Canada and most any other nation on a per cap basis but once you bring median incomes into the picture things even out more.. No doubt aspects of living in a typical U.S city is going to be cheaper but there are also benefits in Canada. For example - how much does that person in Seattle pay for Healthcare out of that 67K income would they pay more out of pocket for healthcare vs a Canadian would pay in taxes - most likely yes.. Also, if we eliminate buying a house or condo and just look at rental costs in Seattle vs Vancouver is there a difference.. Point is there are so many variable that impact overall C.O.L..
There is no doubt Seattle has a much larger economy and higher per cap GDP than Vancouver but certainly as with any measure - they don't tell the whole story..
this covers an astoundingly large 5873 sq miles...
are you serious? Tokyo metro are could be only 1000 sq miles (made up number). What does that mean? Dense area (people live in tall buildings) and nothing else. Metro area is a metro area because it works like one (people live in one city and work in another), not because how many sq miles it is. It's the number of people who are important because people/populations create GPD, not the area size. Seattle metro has half of the population of Toronto and still has GDP almost as high.
Last edited by Botev1912; 04-20-2015 at 07:22 PM..
are you serious? Tokyo metro are could be only 1000 sq miles (made up number). What does that mean? Dense are (people live in tall buildings) and nothing else. Metro area is a metro area because it works like one (people live in one city and work in another), not because how many sq miles it is. It's the number of people who are important because people/populations create GPD, not the area size. Seattle metro has half of the population of Toronto and still has GDP almost as high.
Not sure why you're being combatative but since you are Clearly my post went way above your head and you're still in a Brookings and by extension an American metro measure frame of mind.. The main point being that the metro area used by Brookings for a Canadian city like Toronto is WAY off.. Metro Seattle is MASSIVE in area.. If we were to use an American style measure in a comparable way in Canada the population would be quite a bit bigger than the 6 million cited.. Think about it - the Greater Toronto area alone which is very contiguous is half the area of Seattle metro.. If we used an American style measure equivalent to what was used for Seattle the population would be greater than 6 million therefore a larger catchment area and a much larger GDP than 276 Billion.. Do you think the GTA just ends and there is no nodal connectivity with other cities/towns.. Of course not its just that we measure metro population in a different manner and because Brookings doesn't have a U.S style equivalent it uses our 'metro' figures but they are just not equivalent.. American metro's are always always more generous than Canadian metro's.... Its simply not an apples to apples metro comparison.
So again - the 276Billion cited for Toronto CMA is not a level comparison.. The GTA isn't even a level comparison and it is 323 billion.. So again, if we applied the same measure to a Canadian metro as happens in the U.S - the metro would be larger, there would be more people and thus the GDP would be larger.
As for per cap - yes Seattle is more impressive on a per cap basis which is generally the case for American vs Canadian cities or any other city in the world. With that said you do have to wonder if there isn't some differences in the way GDP is reported.
On another note - Metro Vancouver as of 2012 had a metro population of 2.5 million in 1150 sq miles (I must say impressive for Canamerican standards)... I'm sure if we applied a U.S style measure like was used from Brookings towards Vancouver it would also engulf more than the 2.5 million and thus its GDP would also be larger than reported by Brookings. Would it be as large as Metro Seattle, well no but it would make its GDP larger than what was reported.
the Greater Toronto area alone which is very contiguous is half the area of Seattle metro.. If we used an American style measure equivalent to what was used for Seattle the population would be greater than 6 million therefore a larger catchment area and a much larger GDP than 276 Billion..
actually Toronto's area is twice the size of Seattle (6M+ people over 3.5M). People create GDP. 3.5 million people have similar GDP to 6 million. Area size is irrelevant because people in the US live in single family houses --> less dense and longer distance.
actually Toronto's area is twice the size of Seattle (6M+ people over 3.5M). People create GDP. 3.5 million people have similar GDP to 6 million. Area size is irrelevant because people in the US live in single family houses --> less dense and longer distance.
You got it totally backwards - Seattle's metro area is twice the size of Toronto's not the other way around.. What you meant to say is Toronto is double the size of Seattle in population... Well i'll go futher - 6 million is the wrong count and short changes Metro Toronto in comparison to metro Seattle... plain and simple.. If we took the same way you guys measure population and applied it to Toronto it would be in the range of 7-7.5 million people - maybe even more..
The (Greater Toronto Area) has a population of 6.5 million and a GDP of about 323 Billion dollars.. With an American style Metro measure like applied towards Seattle (Yes it would encompass a larger area than the GTA) it would be close to 400 Billion dollars - maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less depending on how many people would be in that U.S style measure..
You are mistaking the per capita punch of Seattle (which is stronger than Toronto that is very true and is impressive) with my argument about absolute size... Again Toronto CMA population of 6 million is simply not a comparative metro meausure to what happens in the U.S - not by a longshot!!
Chicago is a perfect example.. Its metro is much much larger than Seattle in terms of population and obviously its GDP is larger yet Seattle actually outperforms Chicago on a per cap basis.. So yes, Seattle in that measure is more impressive (and probably more impressive than other large Metro's in the U.S) but Chicago metro is just so much larger in population and thus has a substantially larger GDP.. Toronto is actually closer in metro population to metro Chicago if we used U.S style population measure than it is to metro Seattle.
I don't know why this is hard for you to understand.
Take in 110K immigrants/refugees per year and in 20-30 years report back on what happens to your Per Cap GDP...
Metro Toronto
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