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Old 11-04-2010, 05:51 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 2,494,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I do not think that I am being dishonest in serving meat analogs. I agree, as long as the guest(s) know about it.

Until such time I have to wonder why an omnivore is posting on a vegetarian forum? Not try'n to cause harm, just try'n to give an opinion about the subject.

I am also wondering why anyone who raises animals for slaughter would post on this board.Please clue me in! What does a persons' way of life have to do with food, or church as in this thread? Except possibly that I'm well informed of what actually happens and how animals are actually raised, rather than what a movie portrays it to be.


It's akin to someone such as myself posting on a Barbeque forum.
Really, what would I have to add? Ever had smoked cabbage, onions, bell peppers, squash, garlic, corn, jalap peppers? It is dang good! I would think you would have alot of input on how to grill/cook veggies outdoors. You cook sausage(w/out meat), do you ever grill or smoke it? BBQ sauce ideas and rubs/spices are always interesting to learn about, imho.

What is dishonest is a plastic wrapped pork chop that come without the picture of how pigs are slaughtered. Which is forrible.
NOW THAT IS DISHONESTY! Your just try'n to get me to bite aren't you.
As was told to me, don't take the posts so serious. Most, if not all, are try'n to help and give their POV, thats all.
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
6,529 posts, read 9,424,509 times
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Sheena, the post caught my eye, it's a free message board, we're allowed to post anywhere. Relax. Also I've posted on this board before because uh I like to make vegetarian recipes every week so this board is not irrelevant to me.

I consider meat analogs dishonest. That is my personal opinion. If you think they taste good I have zero problem with you eating them. You wouldn't have to tell me about them being in your dish, they're pretty obvious, so it would just make me think the food is not very good and I would avoid it. We totally disagree about the nature of life and the food chain, but that doesn't mean you can't bring a delicious vegetarian meal that I would enjoy to a potluck. The post was about how you can enforce your lifestyle at times on other people in your church who you are sure do not share it. It will always get resistance when you try to control others' food choices. I offered what I thought were good suggestions for sharing your vegetarian recipes with a broader audience - made up of omnivores, most likely, not carnivores.
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:23 AM
 
4,629 posts, read 5,877,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debsi View Post
The post was about how you can enforce your lifestyle at times on other people in your church who you are sure do not share it. It will always get resistance when you try to control others' food choices. I offered what I thought were good suggestions for sharing your vegetarian recipes with a broader audience - made up of omnivores, most likely, not carnivores.
Hmm, I didn't take it that way at all. It sounded to me like sheena is trying to share her food choices, not her lifestyle. And that she was concerned about introducing more wholesome meals. I don't see anything in any post about controlling other's choices other than your's.

Having many different options to choose from, and then letting people make up their own minds, is what I got out of this thread.

Just curious, but why would meat analogs be "dishonest" to you? That, especially with the good ol' air quotes, implies deception. IMO, I don't like their tastes and I don't eat them. Never liked them, don't use them. But I do use replacements, e.g., portabello mushroom burgers.

Meat analogs are as old as the sun, at least in Asian cultures. They must be a "dishonest" group of people ~
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:40 AM
 
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Sheena, Wicked- I don't want to speak for Debsi, but here is my opinion. It might be better put as not "open" and some what "misleading". If I were served a "burger" and got a mushroom on a bun I would wonder what else was hiden. Same as if you were told the turkey dressing was "veg friendly" and you bit into a piece of meat or could taste butter, or chicken stock.

IMO, don't try to hide what you can do w/food. So your sausage is not made of meat, if it's good then let people know. Why try to hide it? If you are try'n to promote/inform others of veg meals, don't be "shady" about it. Is leave'n out the whole truth also called a lie? I'd be more accepting of it if was the truth rather than try'n to fool me. But, that is just my opinion.

Wish you the best of luck on your potluck supper.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
6,529 posts, read 9,424,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Hmm, I didn't take it that way at all. It sounded to me like sheena is trying to share her food choices, not her lifestyle. And that she was concerned about introducing more wholesome meals. I don't see anything in any post about controlling other's choices other than your's.

Having many different options to choose from, and then letting people make up their own minds, is what I got out of this thread.

Just curious, but why would meat analogs be "dishonest" to you? That, especially with the good ol' air quotes, implies deception. IMO, I don't like their tastes and I don't eat them. Never liked them, don't use them. But I do use replacements, e.g., portabello mushroom burgers.

Meat analogs are as old as the sun, at least in Asian cultures. They must be a "dishonest" group of people ~
I certainly didn't call Asian cultures dishonest. That's a strange extrapolation. I'm talking about FOOD being honest or dishonest, not the people that serve it. A vegetarian based sausage is dishonest to me because A) they don't taste good B) sausage is understood to be meat so it's veggies imitating meat. Also while I'm not a huge tofu fan, I don't put a block of silken tofu in the fake food category. If you make it look like and have the texture of ham, then it's fake. I love vegetables, I want them to appear on my plate as themselves and not as fake sausages.

Wanting to have an all-vegetarian potluck at a church that the OP seems to feel is full of non-vegetarians is controlling what people eat. Bringing and encouraging lots of vegetarian options without trying to prevent some meat options from being there too is giving everybody the choice to eat what they're comfortable with but also branch out. Some will eat all veg, some will eat all meat. Some will eat both. Everybody leaves full and hopefully happy!
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:14 AM
 
4,629 posts, read 5,877,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debsi View Post
I certainly didn't call Asian cultures dishonest. That's a strange extrapolation. I'm talking about FOOD being honest or dishonest, not the people that serve it. *** I must use more smileys, like others have said....I was being facetious, just facetious. ***

Wanting to have an all-vegetarian potluck at a church that the OP seems to feel is full of non-vegetarians is controlling what people eat. Bringing and encouraging lots of vegetarian options without trying to prevent some meat options from being there too is giving everybody the choice to eat what they're comfortable with but also branch out. Some will eat all veg, some will eat all meat. Some will eat both. Everybody leaves full and hopefully happy!
OK, got that; I didn't realize she was trying to prevent others from bringing their own food choices.

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Old 11-04-2010, 09:24 AM
 
4,629 posts, read 5,877,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
IMO, don't try to hide what you can do w/food. So your sausage is not made of meat, if it's good then let people know. Why try to hide it? If you are try'n to promote/inform others of veg meals, don't be "shady" about it. Is leave'n out the whole truth also called a lie? I'd be more accepting of it if was the truth rather than try'n to fool me. But, that is just my opinion.
Whose talking about trying to fool people? I don't know where you two came up with that. Comments were made that it would be best to not explain to people - unless asked - what was in the dish or not in the dish. How do you find that deceptive? I'm quite sure there will be sign cards as to what the dishes are.

Seems if sheena would hang out a big sign saying this or that dish were veg*n, then she'd be forcing/prosletyzing/controlling/demanding what people eat. If she 'soft plays' it because of how defensive people get, then she's being dishonest.

When I made that mention about the death by chocolate cake it was just that. they didn't make a huge deal about their veg*n dishes. IF asked - it was all in the menu - they were told exactly what was in the dish.

What should people do? You order a dish that veg*n, as I should shout to high heaven, "OMG, there's no meat in that dish. Be forewarned!!!!!"

Now, so there's no confusion: (and no, I'm not winking at you)
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:21 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 2,494,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Whose talking about trying to fool people? I don't know where you two came up with that. Comments were made that it would be best to not explain to people - unless asked - what was in the dish or not in the dish. How do you find that deceptive? I'm quite sure there will be sign cards as to what the dishes are.

Seems if sheena would hang out a big sign saying this or that dish were veg*n, then she'd be forcing/prosletyzing/controlling/demanding what people eat. If she 'soft plays' it because of how defensive people get, then she's being dishonest.

When I made that mention about the death by chocolate cake it was just that. they didn't make a huge deal about their veg*n dishes. IF asked - it was all in the menu - they were told exactly what was in the dish.

What should people do? You order a dish that veg*n, as I should shout to high heaven, "OMG, there's no meat in that dish. Be forewarned!!!!!"

Now, so there's no confusion: (and no, I'm not winking at you)

Things are take'n out of context and get'n all messed up. Sorry for try'n to help. Good luck, Sheena. I really do wish you the best.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:03 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 8,211,851 times
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I was not ever trying to fool any one. I wold not prevent anyone from taking a meat or dairy dish to the chuch supper. BTW I am NOT a negan - although I try to limit my dairy intake, and I seem to be headed in that direction.

I take serious issue with anyone who calls meat analogues "dishonest".

Until the advent of factory farming meat was a condiment and was served on special occasions.
Most animals did not lead tortured lives, until their slaughter.

Times are different now.
The meat industry does sanitize it's dirty business in so many ways.
From calling pork "the other white meat" (does anyone REALLY want to know WHY pig flesh is white?)
To attempting to disguise the horror invoved in veal - baby calf.
Even the very names that are chosen disguise what is really being eaten - form "beef" to "pork" to "veal'

On another point I DO GREATLY APPRECIATE the input that I have recieved from forum members with reference to this thread!

I am a practical vegetarian, and a harm reductionist when it comes to vegetarianism or veganism.
If I am in a restaurant, and I am being read the specials of the day by the waitstaff I never cut them off mid stream and rudely interupt "I'm a vegetarian!" - I do not want to be an obnoxious vegetarian - I think that does more harm than good.

But if I am in a safe zone - such as a Vegan or Vegetarian restaurant - I am more out spoken.
I am the one who tries to purchase food in main stream store as much as possible - because I vote with my purchace. One would also think that a vegetarian forum is a "safe zone."

There is nothing "dishonest" about meat analogues, and to say so on a VEGETARIAN forum seems strange. If YOU don't like them fine.
But meat anologues are honest food!
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Old 11-04-2010, 06:56 PM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,357 posts, read 1,052,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post

Even the very names that are chosen disguise what is really being eaten - form "beef" to "pork" to "veal'


There is nothing "dishonest" about meat analogues, and to say so on a VEGETARIAN forum seems strange. If YOU don't like them fine.
But meat anologues are honest food!
I think an omnivore (or even, in my case, a vegan) could say that calling a processed soy product a "meat analogue" is also a way to disguise what is really being eaten. Especially when it's called a meatball, or sausage.

I know that when my non-vegan friends come over for dinner, they are always more likely to dig in to a meal that is clearly vegan, as opposed to one that is vegan, but is kind of pretending to not be. I don't eat any of the fake meats or soy cheeses because I think they're disgusting in addition to being (mostly) chemically processed, sodium filled crap. However, I do have some vegetarian friends who do eat those products. When they try to feed it to omnivores, it never goes over well. From my experience, many meat eaters who initially would have happily tried an openly vegan dish want nothing to do with the vegetarian/vegan offerings after they've taken a bite of processed soy that was presented as meat. To a lot of people, that stuff is just nasty. They wonder if all vegetarian concoctions are like that and, therefore, aren't willing to try them.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm just presenting another point of view.

Last edited by tdna; 11-04-2010 at 07:11 PM..
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