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Well. All I can say is that you're pretty judgmental for someone who claims to be NON-judgmental.
Oh, I will also add that this is the OP's question:
Since you're not vegetarian, I don't even know how you can really answer that question, since it's not an issue you have to face. (Being a "Very Very Picky Eater" just isn't the same thing.)
I don't see it that way. Being a picky eater can be as much of a living hell as being vegetarian or lactose, gluten intolerant. I seems that someone is always waiting to jump on you about your dietary habits. If you don't eat the substandard American diet, someone is going to say something derogatory about what you eat or don't eat. That's been my experience.
Statements like this might be why you're getting "crap" from your family. Congratulations on being healthy; that's fabulous. But I hope you don't say stuff like this to your family; mostly belittling other people's choices isn't usually wise, but also because you can't possibly have proof to back up such a sweeping claim.
I never said this directly to my family members, I'm just pointing out that vegans and vegetarians are an extreme minority in this state. Furthermore, the non-vegetarians here take it to the extreme and I'm sorry to say that the health of people here isn't very good overall; a lot of people here younger than me are on all sorts of medications and such to balance and/or correct the effects of a diet that is mostly animal product based. And I'm sorry but the scientific and anecdotal evidence is strongly in the favor of avoiding animal food products or minimizing them. Only someone completely misinformed about human biology and anatomy would believe that the standard American diet is good or even okay.
Last edited by fireandice1000; 08-06-2012 at 05:01 PM..
Reason: spelling goof
Sorry, but this is just not a truthful claim. Other than a clearly marked cheese and bacon blend, it appears highly unlikely that you could find any cheese in any normal grocery or supermarket in the US which contains pork.
And here's the thing... having been deeply involved with various vegetarian communities of differing beliefs for over 20 years, I've heard a lot of stories from people about conflicts with their friends and family and occasionally even strangers. I'm clear that one of the things that causes stress and conflict between vegetarians and omnivores, especially family members, is when a vegetarian makes exaggerated or confrontational claims, as I believe this is.
Fact checking the claim, cheese makers start their process by curdling cow, sheep, or goat milk with a small amount of an enzyme preparation called rennet, which causes the solids in the milk to separate from the liquid. Originally rennet was mostly derived from cow's stomachs, or sometimes sheep, although vegetable rennets and rennet cultures have now replaced them in many places.
Still, a lot of traditional cheese types are still made with animal rennet, yes, although major cheese companies like Kraft and Sargento have publicly stated that when they do use animal rennet it does not contain pork products. As further evidence, Kraft makes a number of cheese products, like Philadelphia Cream Cheese, which are Certified Kosher, and kosher foods cannot contain any pork.
Also, most cheeses now contain the information on the label whether they were made with Traditional (animal) rennet, or vegetable rennet, so you can check for yourself.
I wish you well, and I wish you luck, and I recommend you stick to talking about your own personal positive experiences with vegetarianism, whatever they may be, rather than referencing claims like this which are clearly not true.
Unfortunately I am in the right. Most cheese products use some form of pork product in them. Not all of them do and they usually are marked as being kosher. I usually eat close to a kosher diet so this is something I look for. Most Kraft cheese products do use pork enzymes in the cheese making process (I believe they add the enzymes during the seperation of the curds from the whey if I remember right) so this obviously isn't kosher. A good example is the block Kraft Cheddar Cheese.
I don't understand how my claims are confrontational.
I don't see it that way. Being a picky eater can be as much of a living hell as being vegetarian or lactose, gluten intolerant. I seems that someone is always waiting to jump on you about your dietary habits. If you don't eat the substandard American diet, someone is going to say something derogatory about what you eat or don't eat. That's been my experience.
As I said upthread, I'm both vegetarian AND a picky eater, so I've seen and experienced both -- and I don't think they're the same.
Unfortunately I am in the right. Most cheese products use some form of pork product in them. Not all of them do and they usually are marked as being kosher. I usually eat close to a kosher diet so this is something I look for. Most Kraft cheese products do use pork enzymes in the cheese making process (I believe they add the enzymes during the seperation of the curds from the whey if I remember right) so this obviously isn't kosher. A good example is the block Kraft Cheddar Cheese.
I don't understand how my claims are confrontational.
Because you're forming your opinions by basing them on things that aren't fact, and then claiming that you are right.
Most Kraft cheese products do -not- use pork enzymes. They use calf rennet. There is no pork in cheese, there is no pork in rennet, and rennet is not made from pig stomach acid. It's made from cow, most of the time. In some cases, a cheese manufacturer will use rennet from whichever kind of animal the milk is from (such as goat rennet to make certain goat cheese). Since cheese isn't made from pig's milk, it's not likely you'll ever see cheese made from pig rennet. Many cheese manufacturers now use vegetable rennet, and some are even using microbial rennet made in a lab, and not in a plant or animal at all.
Unfortunately I am in the right. Most cheese products use some form of pork product in them. Not all of them do and they usually are marked as being kosher. I usually eat close to a kosher diet so this is something I look for. Most Kraft cheese products do use pork enzymes in the cheese making process (I believe they add the enzymes during the seperation of the curds from the whey if I remember right) so this obviously isn't kosher. A good example is the block Kraft Cheddar Cheese.
I don't understand how my claims are confrontational.
Sorry, but they're confrontational because they are demonstrably false... see Kraft Foods public statements on this subject, for example... yet you still make them, with no evidence to support your claim at all... AND... because you are using your false claims to create controversy. You have to KNOW that saying cheese crackers contain pig guts will upset people, even if you don't realize that's not true. On some level you must realize it is you causing the upset!
While Kraft does use calf or sheep rennet in the making of cheeses that are not kosher, like traditional cheddars for instance, it's because those kinds of cheeses can't be made to kosher standards in a way the general public will accept. And given that the Jewish population in the US is only 2.1% of the total, according to the Census, and not all of them keep kosher, it's obviously a marketing trade-off for Kraft to go with what the 97.9% + prefers. With Philadelphia Cream Cheese and Neufchatel, they are able to use a vegetable curdling agent AND pay for the rabbinic supervision that allows for a kosher rating, because of their popularity within the community.
I've told this story elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating here... years ago, when I was interning as a raw food chef at a vegan restaurant, I found a statue of a pig at a flea market, standing on its hind legs, wearing a chef's hat and holding a blackboard. It's the kind of thing you see in many French bistros announcing the special of the day. Having just seen a movie which announced at the end "No animals were harmed in the making of this film," I got the idea to have the blackboard say "No animals were harmed in the making of this food." To me that was amusing, and I thought it would give a chuckle to our customers.
But the owner of the restaurant, a nationally known pioneer in vegan circles, and a very spiritual man, disagreed. He told me that our job was to attract people to all the things that were right about the food we were preparing, not to push them to it by making them uncomfortable about all the other choices that were available to them.
What a wise and conscious way of seeing things! Being committed to one's own choices, while remaining non-judgmental about other's choices, this is the peaceful way!
As I said upthread, I'm both vegetarian AND a picky eater, so I've seen and experienced both -- and I don't think they're the same.
Just my $0.02.
And as I said upthread, I've been a vegetarian and a picky eater (a rigorously balanced vegetarian diet made me sick as a dog, being a picky eater made life boring, so I don't do either any more), and I think they're very much the same as far as the topic is concerned - and in many other ways, as well.
The vegetarian just has all sorts of justifications, some good, some not so good, some ridiculous, for being a vegetarian. The picky eater usually has nothing beyond "Ewwwwww!!!!" or "I've never eaten that so I don't like it" to justify their choice.
Another difference is that many (not all, but most of those who make it a religion or moral life choice of sorts) vegetarians judge their families and anyone who doesn't make the same choices they do for not doing so and make that clear even if they never say so directly but imply all over the place. Picky eaters usually don't. Sometimes, but not usually.
Another difference is that many (not all, but most of those who make it a religion or moral life choice of sorts) vegetarians judge their families and anyone who doesn't make the same choices they do for not doing so and make that clear even if they never say so directly but imply all over the place. Picky eaters usually don't. Sometimes, but not usually.
And the vegetarians are the ones who are judged by others as "flaky," "weird," "judgmental," etc., while picky eaters are just ..... picky eaters. <*shrug*>
And the vegetarians are the ones who are judged by others as "flaky," "weird," "judgmental," etc., while picky eaters are just ..... picky eaters. <*shrug*>
Well, in a way, that makes sense, because picky eaters very rarely judge others (with some exceptions, of course, those being people who are naturally judgmental) for not being picky eaters, and many vegetarians do judge others, and harshly, for not making the same choice they do. So, it's basically a matter of what goes around comes around, or, if you're judgmental of others, they're likely to be judgmental of you.
Then, of course, there are those who choose to be vegetarians, consciously or unconsciously, because it's a platform for their already existing wish to judge others. Those make it hard for everybody, including all the other vegetarians!
Well, in a way, that makes sense, because picky eaters very rarely judge others (with some exceptions, of course, those being people who are naturally judgmental) for not being picky eaters, and many vegetarians do judge others, and harshly, for not making the same choice they do. So, it's basically a matter of what goes around comes around, or, if you're judgmental of others, they're likely to be judgmental of you.
Chicken ... egg. And, obviously, we're never going to agree on this.
I just find it very telling that, in the general Food & Drink forum, I don't see comments from veg*ns in which they judge omnivores for their dietary choices. I wish I could say the same about this sub-forum.
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