[flu189]

Gypsy, I know exactly where you are coming from in regards to your comments on how crime and other problems migrated out of the NYC limits to the "Island". I grew up in the city, but we had lots of friends out in Nassau and Suffolk. My folks back in the mid 70s really thought about moving out east, but in many places the handwriting was already on the wall as what was to come both in area stability and cost of living. As far as crime goes anywhere, the best defense is being alert and neighbors looking out for each other and if you are clueless as what to be looking for then seek out folks that can give you some tips. I too hate it when New Yorkers are branded as some of the best and most honest folks I have ever known were ones I knew growing up and this explains why they leave in many cases. As far as advice on our (VT) cost of living and wages here I can only say to hang tough and give it a try. We have been here twenty-seven months and are in awe on the cost of living impact and as a result are starting to research other options for the future. As many have found out visiting can be quite a bit differnt from actually living somewhere.

[GypsySoul22]

Flu, glad you can relate.
I am not bashing VT and hope no one takes it that way. I did not expect it to be cheap. We were thinking of moving to KY at one point, seriously because we thought GREAT we could get a cheap house, have a decent life, a real apartment and wages weren't so bad there.

I was partly turned off to 'the south' because Meth is such a big problem there. I'm sure it must exist here, especially in the rural areas, but maybe demographics plays a part (age I mean...).?

I think the living here is fine as long as you can afford it. (just like Long Island). But fortunately here there is less crime, less traffic, and a lot less of other negative things. Also our apartment is far more for the money than we could get in NY.

[flu189]

Making critical observations should never be taken as bashing. I think it is important to discuss the good along with the bad or things that people should know that reading realtors and chamber of commerce literature will never discuss. Afterall, we don't live in "Stepford" and walk around with the deer in the headlights look, well maybe some. There are quite a bit of positive aspects to life here for which I am greatful for. Even up here in Chittenden Co traffic is not an issue and the place I have is very peaceful and scenic. Gypsy, it is unfortunate how LI has changed, especially for those of us who experienced it better and cheaper times. As far as meth concerns, that stuff is around, but you are right it is more evident in the south. I assume through public awareness and enforcement efforts it will hopefully be a cyclical event much like the crack epidemic was. We also knew we were not moving into a low cost area, but despite doing research did not realize the extent on how relentlessly you can be nickel and dimed here. I have always watched my budget, but here it is much more of a challenge in that for the first time in a long time I have to actually think in terms of tradeoffs to make ends meet. Good luck with your employment search and if you have a nice rental hold onto it.

[looking4home]

Perhaps this should be posted on another thread, but maybe someone (Gypsy, Flu,etc.) can give a concrete example of the high cost of living. Maybe a side-by-side comparison or breakdown between what things would cost in NY and VT.

I'm just curious about what all of these fees and stuff actually are in regards to your daily lives. I figure you've got the usual - gas, utilities (monthly), rent/mortgage, food, miscellaneous (clothing, entertainment,etc.) but what kinds of extras are you talking about? I think people like Arel(and others) would find such info extremely helpful.

[arel]

There's now increasing concern about crime in Brattleboro, too. There's a parking lot downtown which is a bit of a gathering place, and now a different, more problematic crowd is now hanging out there. Some people are feeling intimidated. Also, there have been some robberies of businesses.

Ugh.

GypsySoul22, I am saddened about what you are finding about the cost of living. Not much lower than in NYC! The only things significantly lower are the salaries! But at least you are a local now!

Thanks for the compliment, MRVphotog.

BTW, if you want to see flame wars, check out some threads on the NYC forum. They might help you appreciate Vermont all the more.

[GypsySoul22]

The biggest flame wars are on the Long Island site! You have these people pulling in hundreds of thousands a year (fantasy money for me) and saying how great Long Island is and only deadbeats and losers can't make it there. I guess the NYC site is the same.

Let's face it, things are rough all over. A great job today is never guaranteed for tomorrow. I kind of like to remind these arrogant people making all that money that they too can suffer illness or layoffs or whatever and then they will be where the average Joe is...except we 'frugal' people know how to stretch a dollar because we have always had to, we know how to do without or with less.

Fees here? Well, I was just annoyed yesterday because I found out in order to teach in VT I may have to pay a big load of money for tests and so on that I already did in NY 15 years ago...I am too old to start over with teaching exams and other things. It's not fair to penalize people who can't get a job in their field and then expect them to work from the bottom up again.

[68vette]

Gypsy, I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you and your family are having. Keep your head up. Things will get better.

I agree with flu about discussing the good and bad in everything. Overall Vermont is a safe place to raise a family, but it has it's problems like anywhere else. There are many people that sell drugs and commit other crimes that migrate to Vermont. My wife did jury duty about 12 months ago and every case she was interviewed for involved an individual who came from NYC or Boston. I'm not trying to say that Vermonters don't commit crimes because that's not the case at all. It could of been the luck of the draw. My feeling is Vermont is an easy target. Some towns don't have there own police departments and others are understaffed. I belive it was the Burlington Free Press that had an article a year or two ago about how bad the heroin problem is in Vermont(above the national average). Another reason for crminals to make their way here. It's nice when they get these people off the street, but as long as you don't associate yourself with these activities, you should be perfectly safe.

[flu189]

Several years ago the Rutland area experienced a surge in Heroin activity and it is present across the state. Rutland also experienced the influx of out-of-state gang activity and this was dealt with by a combination of federal/state/local authorities. We may be a safe state, but speaking from experience as a retired LEO it is the responsibility of the community as a whole to be alert and aggresively send the message that those who deal with drug and gang activity will be identified and driven out. Once this cancer gets a foothold then comes the increase in related crimes. It is much better and financially cheaper to deal with this in the beginning stages.

[JimmyLane]

Originally Posted by MRVphotog

Violent crime is up in Vermont...especially robberies. Up in Btown area there was a guy who robbed a bunch of convenience stores before he was caught. Keep in mind that in a state like Vermont an infrequent crime spree can really skew the stats.

Kerry Sleeper, Vermont Commissioner of Public Safety, advised that the increase in violent crimes is due the fact that a majority of these crimes are committed by people "from the big cities of the northeast". One of the reasons why Vermonters might not be super friendly when they first see a car with NY or Jersey plates. Parranoid...perhaps, human nature....for sure.

I don't feel real comfortable saying this but if you move to Vermont, get Vermont plates as soon as you can.

Vermont managed to keep that still-unsolved murder of a Shelburne man out of the news (for the most part) Apparently he was shot a couple years ago on his property from long distance by a rifleman. Burlington's Northend is getting worse with drugs.

[goatwoodward]

Originally Posted by looking4home

People would travel all the way to Vermont just to commit crimes? What - have they saturated their home base, crime-wise or something? I know Vermont isn't all that far from NY, but it seems like such an odd frame of mind to be in - "Oh, I've robbed all the stores around here a couple of times, maybe I'll drive to Vermont to see what I can get there." I guess maybe it's not so odd after all. Perhaps they feel the more rural folk are easy pickings, and their stores are less likely to have things like alarms and surveillance equipment.

Not necessarily, but there are a *lot* of students and their friends who come from all over the Northeast for a couple years of school, then leave. Also, UVM is giving full scholarships to kids from Christopher Columbus High School in the Bronx to increase their diversity counts. Not saying that these kids are committing the crimes, but it is raising the awareness of Vermont's resources in some places.