Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As someone who's never been to Vermont, but pictures it as a fairytale place with rolling hills and cute "Hallmark Movie" towns, could someone elaborate on the "drug issues"? I imagine since its so cold in the winter, the homeless population is low. But are the towns instead then filled with addicts who just live as your neighbors or..? I think of virtually 0 crime when I think New Hampshire/Vermont. Thanks for the insight forum
As someone who's never been to Vermont, but pictures it as a fairytale place with rolling hills and cute "Hallmark Movie" towns, could someone elaborate on the "drug issues"? I imagine since its so cold in the winter, the homeless population is low. But are the towns instead then filled with addicts who just live as your neighbors or..? I think of virtually 0 crime when I think New Hampshire/Vermont. Thanks for the insight forum
The problem isn’t limited to Vermont. Killingly CT. North Adams MA. Claremont NH. Failed mill towns surrounded by rural with a poor local economy. The top-40% of High School grads move out. I think the general atmosphere of hopelessness leads to alcohol and drug problems. It’s everywhere but carefully hidden in more affluent places. A physician’s kid in my leafy affluent coastal village was gunned down in front of my house by the cops 8 or 9 years ago and suicided in a mental hospital 6 months later. The wheels fell off. The kid went from engineering undergrad at a top Boston school to heroin addict.
The problem isn’t limited to Vermont. Killingly CT. North Adams MA. Claremont NH. Failed mill towns surrounded by rural with a poor local economy. The top-40% of High School grads move out. I think the general atmosphere of hopelessness leads to alcohol and drug problems. It’s everywhere but carefully hidden in more affluent places. A physician’s kid in my leafy affluent coastal village was gunned down in front of my house by the cops 8 or 9 years ago and suicided in a mental hospital 6 months later. The wheels fell off. The kid went from engineering undergrad at a top Boston school to heroin addict.
You are doing a good job at connecting the dots. I'll add another area to the list - Ft. Payne AL used to be the sock capital of the world, then the mill equipment was shipped to China. The area fell apart, and drugs were a huge problem. Fortunately, new industry has moved in and things are not quite as bad.
You can also look at Detroit, the cities in the rust belt, anywhere where major employers have failed and the gap has not been filled. I don't think the true losses from globalization have ever been admitted.
St. J. had a major employer with Fairbanks Scales, which then become Fairbanks Morse. During that time it also was a railroad crossroads as Maine attempted to be the major northeast seaport for the midwest.
I think many tourists heading to the White Mountains probably stop short of heading into Vermont and keep their focus on NH attractions. Littleton is just on the other side of Franconia Notch and has some commercial development (more than St. J), and honestly appears a bit cleaner and more inviting than St. Johnsbury.
The Northeast Kingdom is probably the most scenic part of Vermont with some of the best scenes for fall foliage and color, especially Lake Willoughby. But it's the most isolated part of the state and the most economically neglected. It's also the coldest part of the state. With this, St. J. remains pretty much below the radar. Littleton being on NH side is also more primed for commerce since NH has no sales tax. For Vermont, most tourists generally head to Woodstock/Killington or Waterbury/Stowe, pockets of southern VT, and anywhere along the 89 corridor for the most part.
Exactly. I went past the White Mountains and through Vermont's Northeast Kingdom on my way to Quebec's Eastern Townships five autumns ago. There was a traffic jam on I-93 right around Concord, NH and then some more traffic near Franconia Notch. The interstate was packed with parked cars along its side but beyond White National Forest - WOOHOO!, absolutely no traffic in sight but foliage was just as good as Kancamagus Highway. A lot of tourists probably think that New Hampshire pretty much ends at White Mountain National Forest without any thought of going further north. Anyways, I like the Northeast Kingdom for its solitude, I mean in a previous thread I mentioned that Lake Willoughby is so serene as to be otherworldly. The NE Kingdom and Northern New Hampshire north of the White Mountains is what rural New England ought to be. Let's hope that urban civilization does not ever spoil it.
You can also look at Detroit, the cities in the rust belt, anywhere where major employers have failed and the gap has not been filled. I don't think the true losses from globalization have ever been admitted.
St. J. had a major employer with Fairbanks Scales, which then become Fairbanks Morse. During that time it also was a railroad crossroads as Maine attempted to be the major northeast seaport for the midwest.
Some of these New England mill towns were on the decline even before globalization was a thing. I grew up near Claremont, N.H. and even when I graduated HS in the early 70s it's best years were behind it. In the case of many of the mill towns, the businesses moved to southern states where the prevailing wage was a lot lower.
Fairbanks is still around, but from what I can tell driving past is a shadow of it's former self. Other than Weidmann, not a lot of jobs in the St. J. area.
Location: Between the Evergreen state and the Green Mountain state
77 posts, read 198,550 times
Reputation: 122
We've arranged a rental in Barton for this coming summer/fall. (You can see my other questions about the Lamoille Valley area on other posts.) Will be looking for property while we're there.
How would you all compare things such as services (vets, auto mechanics, medical), retail (especially farmers markets & natural food stores), recreation (town forests, hiking/walking) between Lyndon vs. St. Johnsbury? St J has an appeal to us for its access to the LVRT and for Dog Mountain, but otherwise I don't really know either town. (We know the Lamoille Valley farther west -- Hardwick, Morrisville, etc. -- fairly decently.)
Will find out more when we're settled there, but just thought I'd see what the CD community thought. Thanks.
We've arranged a rental in Barton for this coming summer/fall. (You can see my other questions about the Lamoille Valley area on other posts.) Will be looking for property while we're there.
How would you all compare things such as services (vets, auto mechanics, medical), retail (especially farmers markets & natural food stores), recreation (town forests, hiking/walking) between Lyndon vs. St. Johnsbury? St J has an appeal to us for its access to the LVRT and for Dog Mountain, but otherwise I don't really know either town. (We know the Lamoille Valley farther west -- Hardwick, Morrisville, etc. -- fairly decently.)
Will find out more when we're settled there, but just thought I'd see what the CD community thought. Thanks.
Do you have kids? To me that is a big factor in the metro St. J area.
I LOVE that part of VT. We live in the upper valley and will probably stay due to jobs and being within 2 hours of most our family for a day trip. But often muse about moving to that area. Though alot of our friends in the upper valley grew up there and moved here for work haha.
If you have kids I would look into towns that have school choice and you could send them to St. J academy. I believe Peacham and Walden are sending towns and have good elementary schools.
If you dont have kids, Cabot and Hardwick are like the local food mecas of VT. Every time I look to buy VT grown items they are from those two towns. Take a look at books by Ben Hewitt to get a feel for those towns as he has written alot about them. Craftsbury is also super cool and quaint though further out.
The towns out towards Lyndon seem to be a little less crunchy and progressive. I too dont know as much about them.
One question I do have about the area is where to people grocery shop? There isnt a Hannaford near there which seems like the best store in VT. There is one in Bradford, Barre and Morrisville but that is pretty far. Price Chopper and Shaws suck. I dont know much about White Market though.
Location: Between the Evergreen state and the Green Mountain state
77 posts, read 198,550 times
Reputation: 122
Thanks Boston. We have no kids, so that's no an issue.
I really like Hardwick (except for their miserable grocery store, Tops), and hope we can find property near there, or in the vicinity. (Surprisingly, I like Price Chopper better than Hannaford in Morrisville.) As you say, Craftsbury is nice but just too small. I also like Greensboro (ditto small; and touristy with the summer lake people). Long-term, anyplace along the LVRT is very appealing to us (and St J is at one end).
That said, our short(ish)-term rental is north in Barton, and I was interested in the differences between Lyndon and St J for day-to-day services. Who knows, we might find the St J area even more appealing than Morrisville/Hardwick.
And thanks for the tip on Hewitt's books, I just ordered one.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
