[GypsySoul22]

So, do you have any idea why they allow this spending to go on 'unchecked' if the population of kids is dropping?

In NY we had runaway spending and eventually they started investigating the administration of various districts to find corruption and embezzlement. There was one guy the cops dragged out of school (he was either a big shot on a school board or superintendent of a district) GRINNING as they lead him away. He was one of the people in one of the districts (there were many) skimming off the top.

Could that be the case in VT too?

[mustmove]

Embezzlement by public officials is in some ways less distasteful than incompetence. I've discussed this with a few people who feel that VT's case is the latter. There is one part of the education law that supposedly allows money to flow out of the Ed fund unchecked, but alas I believe it is incompetence/building a big gov't machine that has created the suck. Any Embezzlement I think would have to be state/party wide possible I guess.

[flu189]

Vermont has allowed the education bureaucracy to methodically grow under the auspices and buzz phrase of it's all for the children. Well, duh, yes education is for the children, but we do not need nor can we support an over bloated personnel and multi programs laden system to run education. This much needed awakening we need has nothing to do with attacking the vast majority of teachers. Teachers and their pupils are actually pawns in the great money grab over ever increasing budgets. It's like we built a 4500 square foot house when a 2000 would have worked fine and now we are stuck having to run the place. A budget freeze this year on education will save $60.5 million and add the other $40 million that gets shifted from the general fund to supplement funding for teacher retirements and you have virtually closed the budget deficit. What's really going to get nasty is the propaganda wars and the playing on emotions. Full and absolute line by line disclosure of all education funding for all districts to include any and all administrators tied to it has to be made public and addressed. This also includes full disclosure of contracts. There is no reason why NEA members and especially administrators should not have to shoulder the same burden of deductions and premiums for funding retirement plans and paying for health care that other state employees get. For those that want to keep all the perks and extras in force then there is an economic solution, create private schools where you can offer what you want (assuming you will stay in business) and return public education to the basic fundamentals of providing core education.

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by flu189

Vermont has allowed the education bureaucracy to methodically grow under the auspices and buzz phrase of it's all for the children. Well, duh, yes education is for the children, but we do not need nor can we support an over bloated personnel and multi programs laden system to run education. This much needed awakening we need has nothing to do with attacking the vast majority of teachers. Teachers and their pupils are actually pawns in the great money grab over ever increasing budgets. It's like we built a 4500 square foot house when a 2000 would have worked fine and now we are stuck having to run the place. A budget freeze this year on education will save $60.5 million and add the other $40 million that gets shifted from the general fund to supplement funding for teacher retirements and you have virtually closed the budget deficit. What's really going to get nasty is the propaganda wars and the playing on emotions. Full and absolute line by line disclosure of all education funding for all districts to include any and all administrators tied to it has to be made public and addressed. This also includes full disclosure of contracts. There is no reason why NEA members and especially administrators should not have to shoulder the same burden of deductions and premiums for funding retirement plans and paying for health care that other state employees get. For those that want to keep all the perks and extras in force then there is an economic solution, create private schools where you can offer what you want (assuming you will stay in business) and return public education to the basic fundamentals of providing core education.

Very well put!! Unfortunately, there are so many people that do a lot of complaining about the high taxes, but never vote. That is the time to "speak out". The next year or two is going to make a big difference. If it is business as usual, we are going to see a lot more houses for sale or foreclosures. As far as the rich out of state residents....they didn't get rich by being careless with their money. Most affluent people I know are also the cheapest people I know. Why would they continue to be abused by the VT system?
I will not allow anyone to put me on a guilt trip because I don't have the "It's for the children" mentality. That is one of the reasons we are in this dilemma today.

[flu189]

Getting informed on the issues, really looking at the track records of the legislators that have been in office, and then voting are critical. Quite frankly I have been floored by some of the attitudes of several coworkers and other long time Vermonters I have met. They have this passive fatalistic there is nothing we can do attitude blaming the fiscal ills on the influx of flatlanders over the last decades. Well, they sat back and election after election watched the trend develop. Honestly, many of us so called flatlanders are even more frustrated with the spend until there is no tomorrow mentality. One of the perceived allures of a state like Vermont is that one would believe with such a limited population and infrastructure that excessive spending would not be an issue, but they would be and are wrong. This whole notion and belief that people with money will continue to move here and be willing to shoulder the burden tax wise is quite a fantasy as well. Especially now when virtually everybody that has a retirement portfolio has seen substantial losses which will take years, if ever, to recover. We can't rely on or even suggest that a small fraction of the population assume the burden to keep to keep the status quo in effect.

[Targo]

Originally Posted by flu189

Vermont has allowed the education bureaucracy to methodically grow under the auspices and buzz phrase of it's all for the children. Well, duh, yes education is for the children, but we do not need nor can we support an over bloated personnel and multi programs laden system to run education. This much needed awakening we need has nothing to do with attacking the vast majority of teachers. Teachers and their pupils are actually pawns in the great money grab over ever increasing budgets. It's like we built a 4500 square foot house when a 2000 would have worked fine and now we are stuck having to run the place. A budget freeze this year on education will save $60.5 million and add the other $40 million that gets shifted from the general fund to supplement funding for teacher retirements and you have virtually closed the budget deficit. What's really going to get nasty is the propaganda wars and the playing on emotions. Full and absolute line by line disclosure of all education funding for all districts to include any and all administrators tied to it has to be made public and addressed. This also includes full disclosure of contracts. There is no reason why NEA members and especially administrators should not have to shoulder the same burden of deductions and premiums for funding retirement plans and paying for health care that other state employees get. For those that want to keep all the perks and extras in force then there is an economic solution, create private schools where you can offer what you want (assuming you will stay in business) and return public education to the basic fundamentals of providing core education.

I'll vote for you......

Well stated.

[GypsySoul22]

Originally Posted by flu189

Getting informed on the issues, really looking at the track records of the legislators that have been in office, and then voting are critical. Quite frankly I have been floored by some of the attitudes of several coworkers and other long time Vermonters I have met. They have this passive fatalistic there is nothing we can do attitude blaming the fiscal ills on the influx of flatlanders over the last decades.

Sadly, most natives ARE passive. The best jobs and higher pay seem to go to 'so called' Flatlanders (at my last job all the head administrative/management people were 'out of staters'). The lower level jobs were mixed, and the very low level jobs were mostly natives, happy to live on the crumbs.

I see this weird 'sleepwalking' syndrome everywhere. It makes for quiet in the streets and people 'mind their own business' but being passive never got anyone anything. Then again, most people are probably too busy looking for work or working to survive on these low level jobs and can't get involved in the school processes.

[ex-springfielder]

How many times have budgets been voted down only to have school boards re-vote the same amount with the explantion that voters didn't understand what was being asked for. Usually after the third or fourth vote so few turn out that it gets passed. What the state needs is a law stating that if a budget is voted down a minimum amount needs to be cut, lets throw out 5% as a figure. Every year it's the same, enrollments decline yet the budgets go up. The real answer is to change our basic education structure. Local control is a joke and plays into the hands of the school unions and administration costs use 10% of our funds. Let a state board decide on a curriculum, not every Tom-Dick & Mary parent who thinks they're an expert because they have a child. It doesn't take brains to make a child. Education is an industry, not something teachers are sacrificing to give us. Go to year round classes, tri-semesters or such, who else besides teacher get 14 weeks of vacatation per year. Run the schools year round which will reduce overhead cost and reduce the number class rooms and teachers needed while maintaining the same teacher/pupil ratio.

[flu189]

I was out of state for a few days and reading the latest news regretably pretty much reveals that despite updated fiscal forecasts and data to show that our situation is getting worse, the legislature pretty much has dismissed the governors suggestions out of hand. I was surprised to read that a panel of economists along with local politicos met here and it was speculated that Vermont's housing values are expected to see a downward correction of 20% despite up until now weathering the storm with only a minor dip. Now I don't know how they come up with the belief that our housing values will plummet so much, but if this indeed were to happen it will be a major compounding blow to this state.