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Of course she can. But in this situation with the women at the table, I don't suppose it occurs to you that maybe they were not interested in meeting men. They could have all had boyfriends. They could have been colleagues in town for a conference. They could have been bridesmaids going out after planning something for the bride. They could have been cousins. They could have been former classmates or sorority sisters getting together to catch up or reminisce. If the place was truly 80% male, maybe they thought they wandered into a gay bar and were fine with it.
And maybe, just maybe, they were interested in sitting and having drinks with their friends and simply couldn't be arsed with men, hence the table. The truth that some guys don't seem to accept is that women don't necessarily want men approaching them when they go out. In some cities, there are options for avoiding men--when my friends and I just wanted to have a few and go dancing we'd go to a gay club. (Any old-timers remember Tracks?) But not everywhere has such options. Fortunately for DC it does, but even then. Sometimes you just want to hang with your friends.
Bottom line is that if a woman thinks you're attractive, she'll let you know, even if she doesn't walk right up to you and announce it. There really seems to be something going on here with guys not being able to pick up signals or read body language. Maybe you guys should look up from your phones once in a while.
Then she shouldn't go to bars. And she doesn't know how to go to bars, either. Back in the day, my friends and I pretty much owned Sign of the Whale on M Street. We clustered at the far end of the bar and the fireplace. Bartenders knew our names, our drinks, and as this was before cell phones, were fine with us calling the bar and would hand the phone to our friends when we were running late. No one, but NO ONE tried to grope us, and if they did, a huge bartender by the name of Oscar took care of it. The place hasn't changed. If you guys can't meet women there, I don't know what to tell you.
I don't believe I wrote that the women had an OBLIGATION to speak to the men. I am just saying that women waiting for a man they are interested in speaking with to make the first approach is the same as admitting that women are weaker than men.
Hold on, wait a min. Just because a loud mouth screams across the room doesn't mean we all have to put our legs between out tails now.
The bottom line is situation dictates and this includes the environment FOR EVERYONE. Not everyone is "in state" and ready to go at will. Some people have to warm up and get their conversation juices flowing before approaching.
I recently went out to a local hang out spot in Long Island prior to me coming out here in california. It was with my uncle and his friends who are all white, italian, black and spanish nypd detectives. The night started off good but as it progressed and drinking got underway, you could see that the men became aggressive and talking to women in groups, laughing with them, dancing, twirling them around. This obviously worked as the women responded well. They kept on telling me that this is what works in that area.
I on the other hand am a bit more cool now and rather post up then twirl women around- coming from DC, there isn't so much of that so I am not always on it because the men are a bit less aggressive. In Miami i was on it. They kept pushing me to talk to women and act a fool. I simply wasn't doing that as it isn't my style. But guess what, I guarantee that if I hand out with them more often, I will probably be able to do as they do because I would have built the frame.
However, I spotted two women at the bar and did a quick analysis based on their interaction with each other. They weren't too full of energy but looked open. I approached and quickly scanned the one more interested in what I had to say so then I got my uncle to join in. Come to find out the one I talked to actually lives here in LA so it was an easy approach and conversation went over well because we had something in common.
For someone like me, I can't randomly approach people and act a fool or even engage unless I have pre-scanned them and determined if they are open. I also need to have some things in common to allow the conversation to flow.
But getting back to the original discussion, again, 80% male to female ratio isn't a place where I would bet my dollars on. They would respond to me as the men would- too much male energy to properly engage.
Hold on, wait a min. Just because a loud mouth screams across the room doesn't mean we all have to put our legs between out tails now.
The bottom line is situation dictates and this includes the environment FOR EVERYONE. Not everyone is "in state" and ready to go at will. Some people have to warm up and get their conversation juices flowing before approaching.
I recently went out to a local hang out spot in Long Island prior to me coming out here in california. It was with my uncle and his friends who are all white, italian, black and spanish nypd detectives. The night started off good but as it progressed and drinking got underway, you could see that the men became aggressive and talking to women in groups, laughing with them, dancing, twirling them around. This obviously worked as the women responded well. They kept on telling me that this is what works in that area.
I on the other hand am a bit more cool now and rather post up then twirl women around- coming from DC, there isn't so much of that so I am not always on it because the men are a bit less aggressive. In Miami i was on it. They kept pushing me to talk to women and act a fool. I simply wasn't doing that as it isn't my style. But guess what, I guarantee that if I hand out with them more often, I will probably be able to do as they do because I would have built the frame.
However, I spotted two women at the bar and did a quick analysis based on their interaction with each other. They weren't too full of energy but looked open. I approached and quickly scanned the one more interested in what I had to say so then I got my uncle to join in. Come to find out the one I talked to actually lives here in LA so it was an easy approach and conversation went over well because we had something in common.
For someone like me, I can't randomly approach people and act a fool or even engage unless I have pre-scanned them and determined if they are open. I also need to have some things in common to allow the conversation to flow.
But getting back to the original discussion, again, 80% male to female ratio isn't a place where I would bet my dollars on. They would respond to me as the men would- too much male energy to properly engage.
I completely understand. Your style of approach has to match what works for that particular environment if you want better chances of success. There's no one size fits all. If you're in a new environment it's very important to get a feel for how things work and adapt your game as such
1. Guys don't understand how to take a hint and/or read subtle cues
2. An unusually high percentage of men are afraid to approach due to fear of rejection and/or perceived humiliation.
3. DC probably has a slightly higher percentage of nerdy guys who lack social grace and confidence.
4. Guys are blaming their failure to meet and converse with women due to the competitive nature of the city. When in fact these same guys would struggle in whatever city they relocated too.
but more so option 2 than anything else.
I agree with #2 being a major point for men here, but I'm also curious as to where you think the women here are dropping the ball? or are they all just sexy damsels in distress without any flaws tirelessly waiting for love to find them?
I agree with #2 being a major point for men here, but I'm also curious as to where you think the women here are dropping the ball? or are they all just sexy damsels in distress without any flaws tirelessly waiting for love to find them?
Plenty of women around this town lack social grace and etiquette as well; I certainly won't argue with that. However, attractive women in their 20's can afford to be choosy because there is a healthy pool of eligible men in all age ranges that would be willing to date them. I do believe that their pool selection is somewhat hindered by the fact that many eligible men are hesitant to introduce themselves out of fear of rejection or humiliation. I guess that's a good thing for the minority of guys who can develop the courage to actually introduce themselves and learn from both their successes and failures courting women. Believe it or not, just because a dude has a girlfriend does not make him smooth or good with women. Chances are they met through friends and not at a bar/club setting to begin with.
I don't believe I wrote that the women had an OBLIGATION to speak to the men. I am just saying that women waiting for a man they are interested in speaking with to make the first approach is the same as admitting that women are weaker than men.
Fair enough on the first part. But on the second, no, it's not the same as admitting anything.
If you had scads of women hitting on you, I'd bet the rent you wouldn't extend yourself, either, unless someone was truly outstanding. When you already have a good selection to choose from, why bother?
I mean a few weeks back I was in a popular bar that must have been 80% male clientele (and no it was not a gay bar lol) and a group of some 5 or 6 fine young women in their early to mid 20's came in and sat down at a table.
This is something that just came to mind regarding the above percentage ratio.
Given the fact that there were so many men, it could have actually been more pressure on the man or men who approached. All eyes were essentially on those lonely group of women with men doing as you did (looking on and wondering why nobody was approaching them- AHAH, BINGO). Many men probably pondered the idea of approaching but ran all types of defeating scenarios in their head. Anyone that had approached would have been scrutinized by the men standing around wandering as to why those women weren't being approached. And trust me, you were not the only one glancing over their direction...
Therefore, the fear of rejection was amped a few levels as it would have been more obvious than if it were a nicely mixed crowd. 80% men ratio just isn't a healthy approaching environment for average joes that don't have balls of steel and or have the "i don't give a what" attitude.
Anyone that had approached would have been scrutinized by the men standing around wandering as to why those women weren't being approached.
To clarify, what exactly do you mean by "scrutinized" by the other men standing around? But yes I agree with everything you said. I just use this example to point out the fact that us men are our own worst enemy. If men can't "grow a pair" and learn to say hello to the opposite sex, than they need to stop using that as a convenient excuse to put down the rest of the city and its female inhabitants.
1. Guys don't understand how to take a hint and/or read subtle cues
2. An unusually high percentage of men are afraid to approach due to fear of rejection and/or perceived humiliation.
3. DC probably has a slightly higher percentage of nerdy guys who lack social grace and confidence.
4. Guys are blaming their failure to meet and converse with women due to the competitive nature of the city. When in fact these same guys would struggle in whatever city they relocated too.
but more so option 2 than anything else.
As a guy, I would say 2 and 4 when it comes to this board. I think it's okay to be nervous or anxious about wanting to talk to a stranger, but I don't think it's healthy to cross into the territory of trying to "analyze" people you would like to talk to or random strangers. That's just trying to rationalize one's anxieties.
Fair enough on the first part. But on the second, no, it's not the same as admitting anything.
If you had scads of women hitting on you, I'd bet the rent you wouldn't extend yourself, either, unless someone was truly outstanding. When you already have a good selection to choose from, why bother?
No, it's not fair. But no one said it would be.
Wrong.
Maybe Jessica Alba or Kate Upton can sit back and let hordes of men approach them while they choose which one is the most handsome, makes the most money, has the highest social status, etc. but most normal women (and especially the young women you tend to find in the D.C. area) do NOT have that opportunity since they aren't any more special than the men who may or may not approach them.
The very topic of this thread laments the inability of regular gals to meet the "right" sort of man and you have to wonder how many opportunities are wasted because a woman was too scared to approach a man.
Again, life isn't a 1930s musical where the lady is wooed by the gentleman through song and chivalry.
In this world of female leaders, pioneers and innovators it is up to women to speak up equally as often as it is up to men to make the initial approach.
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