Gun laws, front license plates, & race ways (Seattle, Rochester: 2013, theater)

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by mishigas73

From your cited article:

There were 10.3 deaths by firearms per 100,000 people in Colorado in 2008, exactly the same as the national average. Gun deaths were highest in Alaska (20.9 per 100,000) and lowest in Hawaii (3.1 per 100,000).

Gun deaths are lowest in Hawaii, where there is 45.1 percent gun ownership, according to the other map you provided.

Apparently not.

Congratulations on finding an exception. It's not difficult to see the very obvious pattern though. Look at the maps. It's pretty obvious. It's also nice to see a percentage of gun ownership by state. If you were to read these CD Washington posts, you would think everyone owns a gun but it's not true. It's only 1 in 4. Whereas in Montana, over half have a gun and they are #5 in the nation for gun deaths even though they only have a million people in the whole state. With all the space between each other, they still have a very high percentage of gun deaths.

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by Seacove

You're right, they could be carrying explosives too. Let's all carry explosives. Let's be prepared for all out war every time we leave the house.

Except that not everyone is carrying guns, let alone every time they leave the house.

Nor is every gun owner trigger-happy.

Nor does owning a gun mean you vote along any party line.

If you put on blinds, then all you see is black and white. But since you are terrified that everybody outside of Seattle in western WA *might* have a gun, then stay where you *think* people are uniformly antigun. As everybody knows, the Seattle blob is soooooo safe, because only guns are used to kill.

You defended alcohol consumption for the "responsible users." I am defending gun ownership for the responsible owners. Car privileges for responsible drivers.

Since drunk drivers kill or maim so many innocent people, maybe you should add worrying about getting hit by them to your fears.

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Because your New York comparison didn't work? By the way, New York is one of the lowest (top five) for gun deaths in the country.

Excellent reason for you to take your own advice and move there!

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Your in-laws might be aware that they and you live in one of the highest "death by gun" states in the country. How laughable that is, just so funny.

Of course, gun deaths happen in a vacuum. Methheads, anyone?

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by pikabike

Except that not everyone is carrying guns, let alone every time they leave the house.

Nor is every gun owner trigger-happy.

Nor does owning a gun mean you vote along any party line.

If you put on blinds, then all you see is black and white. But since you are terrified that everybody outside of Seattle in western WA *might* have a gun, then stay where you *think* people are uniformly antigun. As everybody knows, the Seattle blob is soooooo safe, because only guns are used to kill.

You defended alcohol consumption for the "responsible users." I am defending gun ownership for the responsible owners. Car privileges for responsible drivers.

Since drunk drivers kill or maim so many innocent people, maybe you should add worrying about getting hit by them to your fears.

I didn't defend alcohol either way nor did I address cars beyond the fact that neither alcohol nor cars are designed to kill, whereas guns are specifically designed to kill. I showed the correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths by state. It's pretty straightforward.

[RunninJT]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Congratulations on finding an exception. It's not difficult to see the very obvious pattern though. Look at the maps. It's pretty obvious. It's also nice to see a percentage of gun ownership by state. If you were to read these CD Washington posts, you would think everyone owns a gun but it's not true. It's only 1 in 4. Whereas in Montana, over half have a gun and they are #5 in the nation for gun deaths even though they only have a million people in the whole state. With all the space between each other, they still have a very high percentage of gun deaths.

Suicides? I mean it is Montana.

[mishigas73]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Look at the maps. It's pretty obvious.

It is, if you take about 10 or 12 states out of the picture.

Like just about every one of the "light orange states" in the last article you cited.

Listen, I get that you don't like guns. That's entirely your prerogative. But, why can't you just own that fact, rather than trying to force statistics into a box that they really don't fit in?

Originally Posted by Seacove

If you were to read these CD Washington posts, you would think everyone owns a gun but it's not true. It's only 1 in 4.

I guess we're reading different posts, because I've seen no such thing.

The reality is this- there are a little over 450,000 concealed carry permits in Washington, which makes the carry rate about 1 in 16 people in this state. Chances are very good that in your normal everyday life, you are around guns. This doesn't mean that "everyone owns a gun" or that those who do wave them around like flipping idiots. In fact, I would venture to say that the vast, VAST majority of those who own guns, and carry them, do so very quietly.

In my experience, the closest one will get to the "Old West" in this state is a trip to Winthrop.

But, I suppose, we see what we want to see.

Originally Posted by Seacove

Whereas in Montana, over half have a gun and they are #5 in the nation for gun deaths even though they only have a million people in the whole state. With all the space between each other, they still have a very high percentage of gun deaths.

How many of those are accidental deaths or suicides?

According to the "murder rate" chart you provided, Montana isn't in the top 20.

So, what are we speaking about here? Overall gun deaths, murder rates (whether by gun or not) or something else? Deaths per square mile, per capita, or some other "per"?

Just trying to understand the comparison here.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by pikabike

Excellent reason for you to take your own advice and move there!

I gave no one advice to leave. I provided data and those that don't like the data seem to be showing the hostility.

Originally Posted by pikabike

Of course, gun deaths happen in a vacuum. Methheads, anyone?

They actually addressed this:

"Gun violence and drug abuse are often presumed to go together, but we found no association between illegal drug use and death from gun violence at the state level. While it is commonly assumed that mental illness or stress levels trigger gun violence, we found no association between gun violence and the proportion of neurotic personalities in any given state."

The Geography of Gun Violence - CityLab

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by mishigas73

It is, if you take about 10 or 12 states out of the picture.

Like just about every one of the "light orange states" in the last article you cited.

Listen, I get that you don't like guns. That's entirely your prerogative. But, why can't you just own that fact, rather than trying to force statistics into a box that they really don't fit in?

How many of those are accidental deaths or suicides?

According to the "murder rate" chart you provided, Montana isn't in the top 20.

So, what are we speaking about here? Overall gun deaths, murder rates (whether by gun or not) or something else? Deaths per square mile, per capita, or some other "per"?

Just trying to understand the comparison here.

Montana's ranking is in gun deaths. Number 5 in the country for gun deaths and over 52% of them own guns. It's a direct correlation. And I'm not trying to force any statistics, I don't need to. The data is there over and over.

[pikabike]

Originally Posted by Seacove

I gave no one advice to leave. I provided data and those that don't like the data seem to be showing the hostility.



They actually addressed this:

"Gun violence and drug abuse are often presumed to go together, but we found no association between illegal drug use and death from gun violence at the state level. While it is commonly assumed that mental illness or stress levels trigger gun violence, we found no association between gun violence and the proportion of neurotic personalities in any given state."

The Geography of Gun Violence - CityLab

Hostility? Based on your posts here and elsewhere, you are the hostile one--in a passive-aggressive way, of course.

As for the reasons for unjustified shootings (i.e., not for defense), there are so many that you are not going to be able to pigeonhole them. Some are due to lack of training, some are impulsive domestic violence the same as strangling or suffocating (let's outlaw hands), some are real hatred which will find another outlet in the absence of guns, the list goes on.

But I would much, much, much rather be around a sober, clear-thinking person who happens to have a gun than a substance abuser, even an abuser who does not have a gun handy. It's the nut behind the wheel; the wheel could be a gun, a knife, two strong hands, steeltoed boots, a car, an accomplice, a hammer, a big rock...

But I don't go around worrying about those real possibilities, because I avoid substance abusers as much as possible. If you don't like being around people who *might* have guns, then stay in your safe Seattle bubble.

And to be clear, I am talking about handguns, not automatic weapons which are illegal anyway. If I saw someone toting one of those into a store, I would also leave. Even a rifle or shotgun brought into anything other than a hunting-related store would make me wonder. It would just stand out so much I would question the motive.