Washington State is NUMBER TWO...passes Hawaii!! (2013, apartments)

[MechAndy]

Taxation without representation is just another tool of tyrants.

[rkcarguy]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Haha! The law says--as long as they want. They have the right. I wonder if some of them will get into the electric charging station business, and if non-tribal stations will have to deal with state taxes on their electricity sales.

Stay tuned, kids, for more fun developments!

I get that, but it's the state...and their tax money. Like having a nice long line on the mirror in front of a junkie....I'm sure our legislature can find a way around it.

[Hemlock140]

The state is taxing the EVs an annual registration fee of $150 and a $75 transportation electrification fee in addition to standard vehicle fees, to cover their road tax. In fact the EV battery weight causes them to damage the roads more than the ICE vehicle, so as more EVs are on the road the worse the potholes will get. Look at I90 East between Mercer Island and Bellevue, where you can see the rebar in the road. You can bet that whether it's taxes on EV charging or just additional taxes at registration, EV costs are going to end up costing drivers even more than gas cars cost to run now.

I don't see the Tribal exemptions going away, that is far too sensitive an area to challenge considering how comparatively few there are in the state.

[wolfdog]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Not really. Pricing at this level if not higher will be the result of pushing everyone into electric vehicles and hybrids, which has already been going on for quite awhile. The lower the demand for petroleum, the higher the price will be. Because investing in new sources is very expensive. The money has to come from somewhere, and if it doesn't, they'll just sit on known reserves, causing prices to go higher.

Kind of the opposite of what you were predicting.

"The lower the demand for petroleum, the higher the price will be." The price for what? petroleum, or EVs/hybrids?

[Transmition]

As soon as oil prices drop, the oil drillers reduce the supply to raise the prices again. Unless the US cuts off sales to and from abroad, the gas prices are mostly at the whims of the international markets controlled by the international oil suppliers. If people were serious about controlling energy prices and national supply for the benefit of the residents of this country then they would push for that. A more extreme solution would be government controlled supply. But people are tricked into thinking that fewer restrictions on oil production means cheaper gas, but that is not how it works at all.

Gas taxes are generally regressive. Poorer people are forced into longer commutes so end up paying proportionally more of their income than richer people with gas-guzzlers.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Transmition

....
Gas taxes are generally regressive. Poorer people are forced into longer commutes so end up paying proportionally more of their income than richer people with gas-guzzlers.

Therein lies the rub. While I would like to see more EVs on the road as a general rule, the punitive policy to get us there as the primary driver is not the best or most practical approach. And those who can least afford these new EVs will be penalized the greatest.

A case in point was the last car I just purchase for our teenage kids a week ago. They actually like the idea of getting an EV or hybrid. And we also have a newer, more expensive hybrid that gets great gas mileage. So, why not, right? However, the problem came in when I started searching for a reliable, used hybrid at an affordable price for high school/college students. I earnestly searched and even test drove the options all under $10k. The supposed best, most reliable is the beloved and much maligned older Prius. And you know what? All the used 10+ year old Prius' are way over priced and the one we drove was a dog. I couldn't believe how anemic that thing felt compared to a newer hybrid. The older tech combined with tiny engine felt unsafe to drive it was sooooo slow. It was like one of those toy electric cars at Disneyland. Then, the 10+ year old hybrids normally need their batteries replaced which can be very expensive. So, instead, folks sell them and go buy a new car passing them off to the next poor smuck to fix. And there are nightmare stories of battery replacement costs. In the end, I found them a used gas powered vehicle that's reliable. There really was no good, affordable, reliable EV/Hybrid options right now.

How does the middle class family, retiree on a fixed income or young person needing wheels ever buy a reliable EV? I mean even if they really want to and believe in the cause? Its just not practical right now. That is a real problem which cannot be solved by penalizing them only with higher gas prices. Instead, they need real, affordable solutions. That can come instead through significant state funded discounts from all those new gas tax penalties = $$ millions of dollars! I want the politicians who are taking all of our extra money through new taxes to provide more affordable EVs to the masses. Otherwise, they are not putting our money to good use in achieving their stated goal. This is one area where they need to follow CA in providing significant financial incentives vs. simply using penalties as a stick to force people to change. And that stick just happens to put more money into their pockets. Its very lopsided right now and not serving the people.

Derek

[509]

Update: June 16th.

Average gas price.

California 4.876 per gallon
Washington 4.865 per gallon

That gap is now down to 1.1 cents a gallon.

We are the most expensive in the country for PREMIUM gas at $5.267 per gallon!!

I know Jay and the Democrats can do it!! Maybe next week we will finally pass California for the highest gas prices in the nation.

[MechAndy]

To paraphrase what others have said,
They are hitting us with a stick to get away from internal combustion engines and it’s really taking a toll on the people that are not rich.
This group and what’s left of the middle class are taking a beating with policies such as this.
This is hurting us at the gas pumps and it carries over into multiple retail pricing situations like food.
This is No Bueno.

[tpatrick]

If I may add the car manufacturers are taking advantage of the emphasis towards EV and Hybrid cars. I recently purchased a new car and initially wanted a hybrid, namely the Toyota Rav4 hybrid. They were asking $5,000 over MSRP just for the right to purchase the hybrid vehicle. This is in addition to the upcharge from gas to hybrid. I ended up with a gas Honda CRV. I figured I would not own the car long enough to reach an even point on the cost of the hybrid vs cost of gas. Everyone needs to get on the same page if we are truly going to make the move to all EV/Hybrid cars.

[rkcarguy]

Originally Posted by tpatrick

If I may add the car manufacturers are taking advantage of the emphasis towards EV and Hybrid cars. I recently purchased a new car and initially wanted a hybrid, namely the Toyota Rav4 hybrid. They were asking $5,000 over MSRP just for the right to purchase the hybrid vehicle. This is in addition to the upcharge from gas to hybrid. I ended up with a gas Honda CRV. I figured I would not own the car long enough to reach an even point on the cost of the hybrid vs cost of gas. Everyone needs to get on the same page if we are truly going to make the move to all EV/Hybrid cars.

Yep, plus, the attitude has changed from "sell 10 of them and make $1,000 each", to a socialistic "order at MSRP + a bunch of added fees and wait 8 months", or "buy the one on the lot marked up $15,000". It's ridiculous.