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Subtropical for me means that summer average temps are set around tropical standards (something between 75F and 80F) and winter months resemble transitional seasons (spring and autuum) in temperate regions!
Subtropical climates are temperate regions, so it doesn't make sense to say a subtropical winter, should resemble a temperate spring or autumn.
Certain pines are subtropical and some are continental. Pines certainly aren't the most exotic to look it, but there are some that are cold hardy and some that are not to continental climates.
For some reason, Floridian evergreens aren't cold hardy to the inland southeast. Why is it SE Chinese evergreens are able to survive the SE just as easily when they grow in equally subtropical/almost tropical climates as to those in Florida? I have questions too lol
Like I said before, conifers aren't super exotic to look at. They just aren't. Of course, that's all opinion. Hardy conifers exist in these super cold areas because they're built for a slow growth and photosynthesize light at a slower rate than broadleaf deciduous and evergreens. So there are some that are able to deal with this abuse of limited sunlight and extreme cold. But also, there are subtropical conifers and hardy conifers as well. Why aren't there broadleaf evergreens in arctic areas? I don't know! But I'm sure one reason is it's too cold, which is why they start to exist much more in warmer climates such as 7B and 8A zones in southern North America.
There are no broadleaf evergreens in the Arctic as well as continental climates because their leaves have a large surface area which causes them to have large transportation rates, and the cold winters will only increase that rate, similar to freez drying, and all the water is frozen solid in the ground so the plant can not keep it's self hydrated, winter is basically a very dry season for plants which is why any broadleafed plants up north loose the leaves and go dormant. I'm pretty sure the cold plays its part too, but that doesn't stop the conifers, which have needles with low transpiration rates. Also if you pay attention to any native broadleafed plants in the temperate regions they have waxy leaves which also lowers there transportation rate, compared to dicidious trees which don't have waxy leaves because they don't need to worry about that with the more humid summer air.
There are no broadleaf evergreens in the Arctic as well as continental climates because their leaves have a large surface area which causes them to have large transportation rates, and the cold winters will only increase that rate, similar to freez drying, and all the water is frozen solid in the ground so the plant can not keep it's self hydrated, winter is basically a very dry season for plants which is why any broadleafed plants up north loose the leaves and go dormant. I'm pretty sure the cold plays its part too, but that doesn't stop the conifers, which have needles with low transpiration rates. Also if you pay attention to any native broadleafed plants in the temperate regions they have waxy leaves which also lowers there transportation rate, compared to dicidious trees which don't have waxy leaves because they don't need to worry about that with the more humid summer air.
Any idea what makes a climate have a majority of broadleaf evergreen over broadleaf deciduous? That is what I would like to know. Why does the South with its mild winter "average" temps (they don't really get their averages, just up and down all winter) have for the most part the dominant species in the forests being deciduous and not evergreen? I mean, why no native deciduous trees in Australia?
I am still convinced the southern forests have so many deciduous natives due to the extreme cold anomalies they get vs Australia.
Any idea what makes a climate have a majority of broadleaf evergreen over broadleaf deciduous? That is what I would like to know. Why does the South with its mild winter "average" temps (they don't really get their averages, just up and down all winter) have for the most part the dominant species in the forests being deciduous and not evergreen? I mean, why no native deciduous trees in Australia?
I am still convinced the southern forests have so many deciduous natives due to the extreme cold anomalies they get vs Australia.
I think it has to do with the instability of their winters, it causes to much stress for the plants, it's much easier to just go dormant and skip the whole mess rather then experience all the shocks and stress caused by the huge swings in temperature. It's much easier for a plant to live in a consitantly cool/cold climate than a sporadic one such as the eastern US. That's my educated guess.
I think it has to do with the instability of their winters, it causes to much stress for the plants, it's much easier to just go dormant and skip the whole mess rather then experience all the shocks and stress caused by the huge swings in temperature. It's much easier for a plant to live in a consitantly cool/cold climate than a sporadic one such as the eastern US. That's my educated guess.
Sounds very logical and exactly what I thought. It is very typical winter there to go even just a few days later from 20F to 75F, or even more extreme than that. Very hard on a plant, especially citrus and other subtropicals. And that is why I also believe there will be no changing of their forests to broadleaf anytime soon. They will stay as they are for hundreds of years.
You do realize that conifers dominate biomes like the subarctic taiga? Where does any subarctic area in the world have naturally occurring broadleaf evergreen forests? Like nowhere because it's too cold. Having conifers in the SE USA doesn't mean much because of most conifers cold tolerance. The only ones that aren't are families like Araucaria and Agathis from the Southern Hemisphere.
You can have tropical conifers and you can have subarctic conifers. The conifers in the Southeast are of the subtropical/tropical variety; the clade of which the Southeastern pines belong to have member species out in the Carribean, for instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
There is no evidence for this. None. It's been thousands of years since that ice age. What broadleaf evergreens are taking over in the southern forest? Please name which species.
Location: João Pessoa,Brazil(The easternmost point of Americas)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
Any idea what makes a climate have a majority of broadleaf evergreen over broadleaf deciduous? That is what I would like to know. Why does the South with its mild winter "average" temps (they don't really get their averages, just up and down all winter) have for the most part the dominant species in the forests being deciduous and not evergreen? I mean, why no native deciduous trees in Australia?
I am still convinced the southern forests have so many deciduous natives due to the extreme cold anomalies they get vs Australia.
The problem is that tree requires extreme Annual Rainfall and very cool summer temperatures,i think its the reason that this tree does not spread in the Mainland.
Also,Answer me.. Why Mountains in Central Chile(32S/37S) are dominated by Deciduous Trees(Above 700m). while the Same Latitude in Australia all trees are Evergreen.. and the Temps of Both are Almost the Same.
Cerro el Roble(Chile):
Mount Canobolas(Australia):
To me Everything is Geography since trees from South/Central Patagonia Migrated to North.. the same happens in North America.
Look this Map:
Most of Us South was dominated by Taiga,and Southern South America by an Cold Desert to East and an Huge Ice Sheet to West,who means that most of trees from Southern Patagonia Died,while somes survived up North.. when the Ice became to retreat.. they Occupied Again. the same occured in North America.
But yes,in North America the extremes affects a lot the vegetation.
Last edited by ghost-likin; 03-18-2016 at 03:47 PM..
You can have tropical conifers and you can have subarctic conifers. The conifers in the Southeast are of the subtropical/tropical variety; the clade of which the Southeastern pines belong to have member species out in the Carribean, for instance.
A quote right out of your link after only a few sentences: "Climate may also play some more subtle role in the importance of deciduous trees in this apparently warm-temperate climatic region."
Two words stand out, "importance" and "apparently". Apparently because of the wild swings in temperature in winter, and importance due to the sheer large number of deciduous natives and their dominance in the forest.
Lol, your link then goes on to say that the southern forests are mainly a region of deciduous forests until one gets to the coast. And then again mentions the extreme temp anomalies and the highly continental nature of the climate. As I thought, the reason the forests are deciduous is as plain as day and will never change.
Did you even read your link? It backs up exactly what I have been saying lol.
A quote right out of your link after only a few sentences: "Climate may also play some more subtle role in the importance of deciduous trees in this apparently warm-temperate climatic region."
Two words stand out, "importance" and "apparently". Apparently because of the wild swings in temperature in winter, and importance due to the sheer large number of deciduous natives and their dominance in the forest.
Lol, your link then goes on to say that the southern forests are mainly a region of deciduous forests until one gets to the coast. And then again mentions the extreme temp anomalies and the highly continental nature of the climate. As I thought, the reason the forests are deciduous is as plain as day and will never change.
Did you even read your link? It backs up exactly what I have been saying lol.
But the link also explains a region of the Southeast where the climax vegetation is that of evergreen broadleaf forest (corresponding to the range of the Live Oak).
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