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Look forward to seeing the results but I'm not expecting any dramatic revelations. The reason Atlanta has a different climate than Miami has exactly zero to do with what happens in the summer and exactly 100% to do with what happens in the winter.
Exactly.
That's what some of the posters on here aren't getting...
Keep talking about those long steamy DC summers and that's why it's subtropical
completely ignoring that the DC winters are pretty darn cool ....
Subtropical winters IMO are much warmer than DC or NYC or Philly...
January average 7c high -1c low doesn't cut it ....need to see at least a 10c
I'd say make that one of the thresholds ....coldest month average high over 10c
Subtropical ..." sub" as in below tropical ...aka not quite tropical....includes...
places like the northern and central Florida...southern and central Georgia...
most of South Carolina (except in the mountains near the NC state line)...
sections of North Carolina ...up to extreme SE Virginia ....Vurginia Beach area...
Most of Alabama....all of Mississippi....all of Louisiana....eastern and central Texas...
SE Oklahoma (Hugo area) ...most of Arkansas (except higher elevations)...
and some southern sections of Tennessee.
Areas north of that are "Warm Temperate or Subcontinental" which ever sounds better,
a zone between Cfa and Dfa....with mean coldest month temp between 0c and 6c.
Because a temperature range between 0c to 18c for coldest month is way too big...
You know I was being sarcastic with that remark right, you're wrong in your climate views, many places averaging in the low/mid 40s grow many different kinds of palm trees, I mean you would exclude freakin Las Vegas and Mrytle Beach, nobody in their right mind would think of these locales other than subtropical.
How many different kinds of palm trees can grow in Myrtle Beach? And what's the limiting factor preventing them from growing more?
Speaking about palm trees ....there is a "palm tree line" in the US, which I find fascinating....
I once googled hotels for towns and cities in the southern US from coast to coast and tried to find the northernmost cities and towns where the hotels/motels had palm trees...for example in Georgia...
Macon seems to be the northernmost along I-75....I stayed in hotels along I-75 at both Cordele and Valdosta
and both hotels had palm trees...
Most of the hotels are part of large nationwide chains and make decisions on what trees to plant (landscaping) based on the local climate ....for example.... Midland-Odessa, Texas...
some of the hotels there have palm trees but to the north in Lubbock, Texas no hotel has palm trees ...so there is definitely a climate difference betwen those two areas....same with north of DFW area ..again no palm trees at any hotel in places north of there, like Wichita Falls, Texas. So, if the local hotels have palm trees ...definitely a subtropical climate,and when you palm trees commonly along major streets, like Albany, Georgia ...you know you're in the subtropics
Just like when you start seeing coconut palms around Stuart, Florida....you know you're in the tropics
That's what some of the posters on here aren't getting...
EKeep talking about those long steamy DC summers and that's why it's subtropical
completely ignoring that the DC winters are pretty darn cool ....
Subtropical winters IMO are much warmer than DC or NYC or Philly...
January average 7c high -1c low doesn't cut it ....
....yes it does? Cool weather is the non-tropical portion to fulfill the SUB part of subtropical, plus it is not cold, it does not pack snow.
As has been mentioned several times, you'd have to argue Yakutsk isn't subarctic because of the warm summers if you want to argue Washington D.C isn't subtropical because of the cool winters. Boy subtropical is really overidealized on this weather forum compared to subarctic.
Quote:
need to see at least a 10c
I'd say make that one of the thresholds ....coldest month average high over 10c
That is completely arbitrary with no good reason to use unlike the above 0 Celsius isotherm, more overidealizing and nitpicking.
Quote:
Subtropical ..." sub" as in below tropical ...aka not quite tropical....includes...
places like the northern and central Florida...southern and central Georgia...
most of South Carolina (except in the mountains near the NC state line)...
sections of North Carolina ...up to extreme SE Virginia ....Vurginia Beach area...
Most of Alabama....all of Mississippi....all of Louisiana....eastern and central Texas...
SE Oklahoma (Hugo area) ...most of Arkansas (except higher elevations)...
and some southern sections of Tennessee.
In the case of 'sub' climates, sub means somewhat. Washington D.C is clearly somewhat tropical, as you even said the summers are long and steamy!
Quote:
Areas north of that are "Warm Temperate or Subcontinental" which ever sounds better,
a zone between Cfa and Dfa....with mean coldest month temp between 0c and 6c.
What is subcontinental about these, they still have the long warmth, the winters are cool and not cold to fulfill a sub part of subtropical, they do not pack snow.
What I said to the first and second quote applies just as well here. No reason to exclude these from subtropical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB365
Because a temperature range between 0c to 18c for coldest month is way too big...
It's not, for the reasons mentioned many times. I also feel like you need to come to terms with the nature of borderline climates, you seem to struggle with the nature of them resembling what they border to a large extent.
Speaking about palm trees ....there is a "palm tree line" in the US, which I find fascinating....
I once googled hotels for towns and cities in the southern US from coast to coast and tried to find the northernmost cities and towns where the hotels/motels had palm trees...for example in Georgia...
Macon seems to be the northernmost along I-75....I stayed in hotels along I-75 at both Cordele and Valdosta
and both hotels had palm trees...
Most of the hotels are part of large nationwide chains and make decisions on what trees to plant (landscaping) based on the local climate ....for example.... Midland-Odessa, Texas...
some of the hotels there have palm trees but to the north in Lubbock, Texas no hotel has palm trees ...so there is definitely a climate difference betwen those two areas....same with north of DFW area ..again no palm trees at any hotel in places north of there, like Wichita Falls, Texas. So, if the local hotels have palm trees ...definitely a subtropical climate,and when you palm trees commonly along major streets, like Albany, Georgia ...you know you're in the subtropics
Just like when you start seeing coconut palms around Stuart, Florida....you know you're in the tropics
Interesting, I associate palms more with motels, than hotels - here's a motel photo I took last summer ... I wonder where people would think this is if they didn't know?
....yes it does? Cool weather is the non-tropical portion to fulfill the SUB part of subtropical, plus it is not cold, it does not pack snow.
As has been mentioned several times, you'd have to argue Yakutsk isn't subarctic because of the warm summers if you want to argue Washington D.C isn't subtropical because of the cool winters. Boy subtropical is really overidealized on this weather forum compared to subarctic.
That is completely arbitrary with no good reason to use unlike the above 0 Celsius isotherm, more overidealizing and nitpicking.
In the case of 'sub' climates, sub means somewhat. Washington D.C is clearly somewhat tropical, as you even said the summers are long and steamy!
What is subcontinental about these, they still have the long warmth, the winters are cool and not cold to fulfill a sub part of subtropical, they do not pack snow.
What I said to the first and second quote applies just as well here. No reason to exclude these from subtropical.
It's not, for the reasons mentioned many times. I also feel like you need to come to terms with the nature of borderline climates, you seem to struggle with the nature of them resembling what they border to a large extent.
You call my suggested 10c threshold arbitary but you are are steadfast on 0c and
that is not arbitrary....
I still think that to have a huge 0c to 18c coldest month mean temp range problematic,
the climate in places in the colder part of that zone are far too different than climates in the warmer sections ....like Orlando and Philadelphia....a much bigger climatic difference than, for example, Philadelphia and Toronto....and no one argues that Toronto and Philadelphia do not have the same climate and are not in the same climate zone
and yet Philadelphia and Orlando ARE in the same climate zone...do you not see the problem with that?
Orlando in winter I'm wearing a T-shirt enjoying Disney World...enjoying warm weather,
in Philadelphia I'm wearing a winter jacket ....a totally different climate!
Like I said...Philadelphia is closer to Toronto in winter than Orlando.
Look forward to seeing the results but I'm not expecting any dramatic revelations. The reason Atlanta has a different climate than Miami has exactly zero to do with what happens in the summer and exactly 100% to do with what happens in the winter.
Heck, all fall-spring months from November-April for Hartsfield-Jackson! Space League's house may have a tropical April so it might qualify for only November-March, but all those months instead of just the winter are what makes it so.
The analogue for being akin to Miami/South Florida would be an 18+ Celsius normally frost proof month. That is Hartsfield Jackson from May-October, and while April is also normally frost proof it doesn't yet make 18 Celsius. I would expect Space League's house to, though.
Interesting, I associate palms more with motels, than hotels - here's a motel photo I took last summer ... I wonder where people would think this is if they didn't know?
You call my suggested 10c threhold arbitary but you are are steadfast on 0c and
that is not arbitrary....
The reason it isn't is because it is the snowpack line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB365
I still think that to have a huge 0c to 18c coldest month mean temp to problematic,
the climate in places in the colder part of that zone are far too different than climates in the warmer sections ....like Orlando and Philadelphia....a much bigger climatic difference than, for example, Philadelphia and Toronto....and no one argues that Toronto and Philadelphia do not have the same climate and are not in the same climate zone
and yet Philadelphia and Orlando ARE in the same climate zone...do you not see the problem with that?
I don't think you see the reason it is so. It is because they have the same root causes that they are considered the same zone, the classification is designed on that premise.
The same root cause produces a wide range of climates, hence the between 0-18 Celsius range. But it is still the same root cause.
You might find this analogy helpful: the European catfish and zebra pleco are very different in shape, size, appearance, etc, but because they had the same catfish common ancestor, they are both catfish. That is how grouping together same cause climates like Philadelphia and Orlando together works.
And again, there's the issue with the borderline climates I mentioned. Borderline climates, as stated before, will be similar to what they border.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB365
Orlando in winter I'm wearing a T-shirt enjoying Disney World...enjoying warm weather,
in Philadelphia I'm wearing a winter jacket ....a totally different climate! Like I said...Philadelphia is closer to Toronto in winter than Orlando.
And like I said, you need to understand that the nature of borderline climates and the shared root cause still has Philadelphia with Orlando despite that.
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