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Spring in that part of Europe can be brutally slow to get going and you may go well into April or even May before seeing 70 degrees. Similarly you may well see your last 70 degree day in early October.
Winters aren't especially cold there and mostly immune to the kind of extremes we see in the U.S. but there's just a very long time period of reliably dreary, unpleasant weather conditions. Many people in my experience find that psychologically quite difficult to deal with.
70 is a very high threshold for "spring." Most spring flowers/leaves bloom at temps well below 70. Tulips, basically the epitome of "spring blooms" don't tolerate temps that high very well and bloom best in the mid 50s.
70 is a very high threshold for "spring." Most spring flowers/leaves bloom at temps well below 70. Tulips, basically the epitome of "spring blooms" don't tolerate temps that high very well and bloom best in the mid 50s.
Also Berlin actually has warmer springs than places like Toronto or Boston. People around here are making it out to be like St. John's or somesuch.
70 is a very high threshold for "spring." Most spring flowers/leaves bloom at temps well below 70. Tulips, basically the epitome of "spring blooms" don't tolerate temps that high very well and bloom best in the mid 50s.
I grew up in central Europe and the first 20C day (so 68F technically) was usually what you were waiting for in spring, and it was pretty much unheard of in March and often only occurred in the 2nd half of April. 40s on Easter and 50s on May Day? Unfortunately a reality in a lot of years.
I'm fully aware that in many areas thawing weather i.e. above freezing temps are associated with spring, but persistent snow cover and lasting freezes aren't very common in low-lying Europe south of Scandinavia. So if 'winter' is a steady diet of highs between the mid 30s and low 50s with low to mid 40s the most typical temps then spring needs to bring a notable departure in terms of warmth or it won't be perceived as such.
Also Berlin actually has warmer springs than places like Toronto or Boston. People around here are making it out to be like St. John's or somesuch.
I can't speak for them but that's probably relative to Tybee Island (since this thread is about those 2 places).
Tybee Island's January is nearly as warm as the April/May transition in Berlin, and going off of the climate boxes for other places in coastal Georgia and the Carolinas, its usual January maximum is probably 22-23C - likewise nearly as warm as the usual Berlin April maximum of 24C.
Given how much importance Veritas Vincit is placing on the first warm days, that would be pretty notable.
Don't know about you, but relative to Tybee Island, I'd say that's more than sufficient to make it out to be St. John's (more than sufficient because unlike Berlin/Tybee Island being so close, St. John's April is actually 7.3C warmer than Toronto's January).
I grew up in central Europe and the first 20C day (so 68F technically) was usually what you were waiting for in spring, and it was pretty much unheard of in March and often only occurred in the 2nd half of April. 40s on Easter and 50s on May Day? Unfortunately a reality in a lot of years.
I'm fully aware that in many areas thawing weather i.e. above freezing temps are associated with spring, but persistent snow cover and lasting freezes aren't very common in low-lying Europe south of Scandinavia. So if 'winter' is a steady diet of highs between the mid 30s and low 50s with low to mid 40s the most typical temps then spring needs to bring a notable departure in terms of warmth or it won't be perceived as such.
So since winter is mild then spring is somehow diminished? That's not my experience. There's no need to suffer through the brutal extremes of an eastern North American climate just to enjoy spring.
Winters around here are pretty mild--warmer than DC on average. Yet a normal March and April still feels decidedly like spring even though we don't get temperatures in the 70s.
I can't speak for them but that's probably relative to Tybee Island (since this thread is about those 2 places).
Tybee Island's January is nearly as warm as the April/May transition in Berlin, and going off of the climate boxes for other places in coastal Georgia and the Carolinas, its usual January maximum is probably 22-23C - likewise nearly as warm as the usual Berlin April maximum of 24C.
Given how much importance Veritas Vincit is placing on the first warm days, that would be pretty notable.
Don't know about you, but relative to Tybee Island, I'd say that's more than sufficient to make it out to be St. John's (more than sufficient because unlike Berlin/Tybee Island being so close, St. John's April is actually 7.3C warmer than Toronto's January).
Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.
Spring in that part of Europe can be brutally slow to get going and you may go well into April or even May before seeing 70 degrees. Similarly you may well see your last 70 degree day in early October.
Winters aren't especially cold there and mostly immune to the kind of extremes we see in the U.S. but there's just a very long time period of reliably dreary, unpleasant weather conditions. Many people in my experience find that psychologically quite difficult to deal with.
This is spot-on correct for most of Germany, except for perhaps the Rhine valley south of Karlsruhe along the border with France, which averages a few degrees warmer.
Today for example (April 26) the morning low was 3C/36F and the afternoon high was 7C/45F. I went for a 30 mile bicycle ride and wore a lot of the same clothing layers as in mid-winter.
It will be nice to return to the US later this year and live in the southern latitudes where warm temps can show up in March and linger into November, with some back and forth between warm and cool.
Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.
Let me try and simplify it.
Compared to Berlin, Tybee Island gets much more of the springish 20C+ weather Veritas Vincit was talking about. Its January is as warm as very late April in Berlin, with similar absolute maximum temperatures, giving the possibility for that springish weather year round.
This is in contrast to the example you mentioned of St. John's and then Toronto. St. John's April is much warmer than Toronto's January instead of the 2 being similar, meaning the relative warmup discrepancy between them is smaller than between Berlin and Tybee Island.
Therefore your mention of users in this thread treating Berlin as if it's St. John's in terms of slow spring is more than true relative to Tybee Island.
This is spot-on correct for most of Germany, except for perhaps the Rhine valley south of Karlsruhe along the border with France, which averages a few degrees warmer.
Today for example (April 26) the morning low was 3C/36F and the afternoon high was 7C/45F. I went for a 30 mile bicycle ride and wore a lot of the same clothing layers as in mid-winter.
It will be nice to return to the US later this year and live in the southern latitudes where warm temps can show up in March and linger into November, with some back and forth between warm and cool.
You actually like the Southeast US November-March (and sometimes September-May) back and forth wild swings between hot-blazing hot and mild/cool/cold? Join the club!
There have been countless threads about why that unstable cool season makes the Southeast US 'inferior' or 'not Cfa'. I on the contrary find that when the cards are dealt right that massively unstable weather can make truly awesome weather monitoring.
Tybee Island has less of it compared to most of the Southeast because it is so maritime, so a better example of well dealt cards is Tallahassee cold hole airport in 2015+2020, 2 years I unfortunately either didn't explicitly monitor Tallahassee in or were out of climatology.
Some of the best these years had to offer was the discrepancies in monthly averages and extreme minima/maxima relative to normal, as well as standard deviation from both averages and one month or season to the next. Here are 1991-2020 normals for comparison - you can see there was much deviation from the usual, and not necessarily in an orderly fashion!
Any Southeast US climate that's not as moderated as Tybee will be similar to the above example in good years. Spectacular to monitor for those elsewhere and great to live for those who like some variety.
Last edited by Can't think of username; 04-26-2023 at 12:47 PM..
So since winter is mild then spring is somehow diminished? That's not my experience. There's no need to suffer through the brutal extremes of an eastern North American climate just to enjoy spring.
Winters around here are pretty mild--warmer than DC on average. Yet a normal March and April still feels decidedly like spring even though we don't get temperatures in the 70s.
The point is that if your winters frequently see temperatures well below freezing which may stay at that level for weeks and even months then seeing 5-10C/40-50F might feel pretty spring-like. But for those who can see 5-10C pretty often in winter, too, it likely doesn't.
A milder winter raises the threshold for what conditions people expect in good spring weather. I would find it difficult to believe that Vancouverites see a day with a 8-9C degrees high temperature and go "spring is finally here!"
In fact, I suspect that a steady diet of such days in March/April would trigger people to talk about spring being miserable this year.
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? Join the club!
. I on the contrary find that when the cards are dealt right that massively unstable weather can make truly awesome weather monitoring.
