Is West Virginia Southern? (Parkersburg, Romney: credit, safe, yard)
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But I think part of the confusion, besides the fact that West Virginia is right on the border of 3 (!) major regions, is that the state is totally different from most others. I cannot think of any other state that is mostly rural and is made up primarily of mountains and hills. Even the "Mountain States" out west have almost as much plains as mountains.
Moreover, the cities/urban areas (although not heavily populated) in WV are actually very structurally dense and full of some very interesting historic architecture -- much more East Coast-looking than what is typically found in the Midwest and interior South.
I think everyone can agree that WV is a unique state that seems tied to different regions depending on the aspect discussed.
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Originally Posted by 1greatcity
To me, the South pretty much ends at the northern border of NC and TN. I see where Wikipedia calls WV a "Southeastern" state. But view a US map, and you see that WV is not really located in the southeastern portion of the nation. It borders PA, not TN or NC.
The best description of WV's location is that it's solidly in Appalachia.... which I realize isn't an "official region" of the US. But WV is a state that's kind of wedged between the Northeast, the Mid-Atlantic, and the Eastern Great Lakes. Anyone can claim it, I guess. Even the South.
Kentucky is clearly a southern state. Culturally, in terms of speech patterns, demographically, politically, in terms of weather, Kentucky is more southern than it is northern. Virginia except for NOVA also leans solidly Southern for the same reasons. West Virginia's dialect map shows 2/3 of the state to lean southern. Demographically, culturally, and in terms of speech patterns the same is true. While certain parts of the state are clearly northern, the majority of the state is southern. Nothing magic happens when you cross the state's border (see the UNC survey to note that an overwhelming majority of those state's residents identified as southern.) Aside from not lying entirely geographically in the south, this state lacks nothing else.
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Originally Posted by Gnutella
Likewise, there is nothing Southern at all about West Virginia north of U.S. 50. Cultural and development patterns in West Virginia are very stratified.
Honestly, I think the reason the U.S. Government has classified West Virginia as part of the South is because every state requires a regional classification for the sake of simplicity, and the capital/largest city in the state (Charleston) has more in common with Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee than it does with Pennsylvania or Ohio.
The portion of the state that does lie above U.S. 50 is small. The majority of the state lies below U.S. 50...overall, West Virginia is a southern state.
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Originally Posted by Gnutella
It's kind of like Missouri being wedged between the Great Lakes, the Great Plains and the mid-South.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Very little of Missouri borders the south...and the Great Plains and Great Lakes states both comprise the Midwest....Missouri is classifiable as Midwestern because overall, most of the state leans more that way than southern. It's only those few parts that border Arkansas, Oklahoma, (actually, SW MO is a hybrid of cultures), Kentucky, and Tennessee that lean southern. These are very small portions of
states. The only thing I think that Census Bureau clearly has wrong are Maryland and Delaware, which clearly lean more Northeastern. All of these states are classifiable as leaning more one way than another...even the Great Lakes states of the Midwest aren't all 100% Midwestern, but nobody debates this.
West Virginia, Kentucky, and Virginia are 75% Southern, 25% Northern...Missouri is the reverse, as are Maryland and Delaware...I'll give it 60%-40% to be more fair for these states. The bottom line is that unless it's a 50-50 split decision, nothing is impossible to classify.
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WV is clearly more southern than Missouri. Anyone who denies it is Southern just has a very narrow definition of true southern. WV is definitely more southern than Midwestern or Northeastern so if you have to group it, which was the intention of my question, it would be classed as Southern.
The portion of the state that does lie above U.S. 50 is small. The majority of the state lies below U.S. 50...overall, West Virginia is a southern state.
Area-wise, yes. Population-wise, no. There are three significant population clusters in northern West Virginia: the northern panhandle, the far eastern panhandle, and the north-central corridor.
The northern panhandle (Brooke, Hancock, Marshall and Ohio Counties) has 132,835 people. The far eastern panhandle (Berkeley, Jefferson and Morgan Counties) has 175,208 people. The north-central corridor (Harrison, Marion and Monongalia Counties) has 221,706 people. Those 10 counties combined have 529,749 people. Add in 86,956 people in Wood County (Parkersburg), and that brings the total urbanized population in northern West Virginia to a not-insignificant 616,705.
Just so you understand that while West Virginia's identity and culture may be primarily Southern, there are over half a million people in the state who aren't part of it -- and that doesn't include the rural counties of northern West Virginia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan
I'm not sure I agree with that. Very little of Missouri borders the south...and the Great Plains and Great Lakes states both comprise the Midwest....Missouri is classifiable as Midwestern because overall, most of the state leans more that way than southern. It's only those few parts that border Arkansas, Oklahoma, (actually, SW MO is a hybrid of cultures), Kentucky, and Tennessee that lean southern. These are very small portions of
states. The only thing I think that Census Bureau clearly has wrong are Maryland and Delaware, which clearly lean more Northeastern. All of these states are classifiable as leaning more one way than another...even the Great Lakes states of the Midwest aren't all 100% Midwestern, but nobody debates this.
West Virginia, Kentucky, and Virginia are 75% Southern, 25% Northern...Missouri is the reverse, as are Maryland and Delaware...I'll give it 60%-40% to be more fair for these states. The bottom line is that unless it's a 50-50 split decision, nothing is impossible to classify.
Missouri borders Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas, which are mid-South. I agree that Missouri's identity and culture are primarily Midwestern, and I never suggested otherwise. But the southern third of the state behaves like the South just like the northern third of West Virginia behaves like the interior Northeast. That's all I was saying.
Last edited by Craziaskowboi; 01-11-2012 at 03:33 AM..
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Originally Posted by Gnutella
Area-wise, yes. Population-wise, no. There are three significant population clusters in northern West Virginia: the northern panhandle, the far eastern panhandle, and the north-central corridor.
The northern panhandle (Brooke, Hancock, Marshall and Ohio Counties) has 132,835 people. The far eastern panhandle (Berkeley, Jefferson and Morgan Counties) has 175,208 people. The north-central corridor (Harrison, Marion and Monongalia Counties) has 221,706 people. Those 10 counties combined have 529,749 people. Add in 86,956 people in Wood County (Parkersburg), and that brings the total urbanized population in northern West Virginia to a not-insignificant 616,705.
Just so you understand that while West Virginia's identity and culture may be primarily Southern, there are over half a million people in the state who aren't part of it -- and that doesn't include the rural counties of northern West Virginia.
Missouri borders Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas, which are mid-South. I agree that Missouri's identity and culture are primarily Midwestern, and I never suggested otherwise. But the southern third of the state behaves like the South just like the northern third of West Virginia behaves like the interior Northeast. That's all I was saying.
Gnutella's assumptions are far too sweeping, especially in the face of the studies and survey's done by government and universities, which are more accurate than just using a calculator to rack up numbers pulled from an atlas and assuming that the people represented by those numbers agree with Gnutella's assessment.
The portion of the state that does lie above U.S. 50 is small. The majority of the state lies below U.S. 50...overall, West Virginia is a southern state.
Except for Charleston, Huntington and Beckley, the rest of WV's major towns are either on or north of US Route 50.
Except for Charleston, Huntington and Beckley, the rest of WV's major towns are either on or north of US Route 50.
It intersects Parkersburg which I imagine to lean more southern than northern. I think that a noticeable divider would be I70 for the general area. Southern PA is where there are noticeable southern traits kicking in (subtle as it may be) and I say that rt.50 would be another point of reference where people living south of there tend to have more of a southern identity than northern.
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