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shrink- thanks for sharing that small house link, great stuff.
DK- are modulars using larsen trusses yet? they save big on premium choice lumber, stronger, and allow more insulation space from what I've read.
Question about tin roofs- how do you keep a noisy rain down? what/how much insulation works to soundproof too?
Harborlady:
To my knowledge the larsen truss is not being used. Code requirements take time to establish and do not change overnight. Apex uses a lot of #1 grade lumber in their floor framing and I've always been impressed with this feature, as we must special order this woodgrade here through the vendors when we stickbuild.
Apex buys in bulk and owns their own milling interests...their products are delivered by the train and tractor/trailer load. Vendors of specialty products have spaces on the doc's where their tractor/trailers are backed into the delivery area and when empty, they are automatically replaced.
What Apex uses for incredible strength is the McMillen Truss Joist products from Buckhannon. The Laminated beams, I-joists and other pressed laminates...
As for insulation...a ceiling is 3/4" sheetrock, glued to 2 X 6 rafters...over this is 12" of O/C fiberglass insulation....over this is spayed regular cellulouse to fill in the nooks and crannies...
This is the standard ceiling constructed without options.
You asked about a the noise factor on a metal roof. We normaly sheet the frame with 5/8" osb or plywood, cover that with 30# felt and screw( a 2" stainless bolt with a nylon washer, $100 a bag) the metal to the wood with at least at a 16" field for the screws...a person can hardly hear any rain...If it's a real issue for the customer we will cover that sheeting with 1/4" fan-fold styrofoam and sheet over that.
I like fan-fold insulation...Penn State did a building study in the early 1980's...the R factor of a building would be extended if it was used between sheetrock and the wall studs and on the exterior between the stud sheeting and the siding. A lot of builders use it for the exterior but never for the interior...this is a secret, as it completely sound proofs the house and creates a thermos bottle effect with the walls...because of this factor, the walls do not need to be thick (2x6) and a normal sized stud product can be used...increasing cost effectivess.
I like the 'Green" idea for housing, but I see it as a scam...charging a horrendous price for so little goods...working on some underground designs too...have a few in this area but they have not caught on like they should...am intrigued with the old plaster use of sprayed Stucco...can see a market for that as its enduring and strong...
harborlady: Agreed. But actually the person who put the nails in our tires made it clear he hates this country, even though he was born and educated here. Oh well. I just keep my mouth buttoned like I did as a kid. I'm covert about my political leanings and have fun discussing the commonalities among any party members out there (you'd be surprised how much folks agree on if they make the effort instead of looking for a fight). Anyway, my husband had to learn the hard way when he stumbled into that fellow. It was pretty costly.
If you can't find something you like in your price range in the eastern West Virginia panhandle, you could look in Maryland in Frederick County north of the city of Frederick or Washington County southeast of Hagerstown as alternatives, particularly the latter. From my limited experience spending time in the eastern WV panhandle and my somewhat more extensive experience in Frederick and Washington Counties, those areas are fairly similar to each other. The big negative about Maryland vs. West Virginia for a job in Leesburg is you'd need to cross the Potomac River, and river crossings in northern Virginia are few and far between.
harborlady: Agreed. But actually the person who put the nails in our tires made it clear he hates this country, even though he was born and educated here. Oh well. I just keep my mouth buttoned like I did as a kid. I'm covert about my political leanings and have fun discussing the commonalities among any party members out there (you'd be surprised how much folks agree on if they make the effort instead of looking for a fight). Anyway, my husband had to learn the hard way when he stumbled into that fellow. It was pretty costly.
This whole world (no matter where you go) never seems to run short of scammers, bullies or yahoos. Of course you can choose to be silent, but don't forget that freedom of speech is a guaranteed right, and it is they who are not in compliance with the law. Our country is deeply troubled and needs as many people thinking in terms of solutions as possible, not squashing their contribution. An idea can either stand on its own merit, or it cannot.
Yes, I can relate about commonalities. My own leanings annoy people, because they don't neatly fall into one single ideological box. I'm not loyal to a particular party, I'm loyal to the candidates in service to the greater good. I read up about WV mountain party, but I'm not too sure if they are economically sophisticated enough to be able to deliver what they hold high. I guess I'll be looking at them closer when I get settled in.
harborlady: You've hit all the right nails on the head. Certainly business studies have proven that a diversity of ideas produce a better end result -- or solution in the case of our country's concerns. I've seen close friends, over the topic of politics, tear each other apart and then, feelings hurt, glower at each other in eerie silence. Still, somehow, they always come back together. After they calm down a bit, I guess they come to realize that debate, nasty or nice, is sometimes the only way to press on to a workable solution. I love town hall meetings for this very reason. I'll look into that WV mountain party -- thanks!
DK
re: code requirements, green construction, green scam
When you travel outside the beaten path, it's more costly because you lose benefit of the synergies established within the industry. You don't have the support of regulatory agencies, gain their skepticism, and in effect whatever you invest in, you're the guinea pig paying for the burden of proof. It's dicey, and some want to recoup their costs immediately by giving themselves a 100% profit margin upfront. I think that hurts them & anyone doing biz with them. I bought a cassette player when it came down to $70, not when it was $300.
I see much more promise in things like rice hull insulation, which is the most compatible with WV climate, and the least cost measured sq inch for sq inch + minimal long term maintenence + zero toxicity/flamability. Keeping the pricetag of homeownership is a priority of mine, and it would either have to happen in the upfront cost or the investment in quality that will make it a one time expenditure.
I've not made up my mind which is best- aiming for thinner walls that save materials and increase interior square footage, or old school tried and true thicker walls who guarantee insular qualities & endurance with sheer mass. The downside to the later isn't neccessarily cost, because I-joists help that along nicely, but the latest look into indoor air quality of homes who are too tightly insulated. I might need rogaine soon for the hairpulling indecision I've got over this! LOL
Ultimately I think my own choices will lean toward envelope architecture, especially because I like the indoor/outdoor aspect of living away from the standard box. Not practical for urban, rurally it works better.
I like the stucco because it allows the owner to incrementally maintain it themselves, instead of requiring private contractor expertise and the huge replacement cost of siding that's gone past its useful life. Stucco is more forgiving, an appealing choice for amatuers, and the tinting/surfacing choices allow aesthetic changes at will. Am I mistaken about stucco problems being apparent early, as opposed to siding problems being hidden by glossy surfaces?? Eco wise by comparision stucco is friendlier.
I asked contractors up here if they'd use housewrap on their own houses, they said hell no. As builders it makes their lives easier when trying to keep progress going between inclement weather bands, but they express doubts about its useful cost in relation to increasing the life of a home. Most are suspicious & consider it a false sense of security. Fanfold looks more functional.
Have you read about compressed earth bricks? I'm thinking a good experiment to try this out on is an outbuilding/root cellar or even a barn structure. My confidence doesn't stretch to the foundation of a home, but trial and error on lesser structures I think will be fruitful. Like adobe set ups, its endurance will depend on its ability to handle moisture. http://www.ecosustainablevillage.com...rick_homes.htm
re: tin roofs. I was warned about them from someone who grew up in kentucky 40 yrs ago. Things have changed, and so have codes. I think his experience was limited to backwood farmers patching a hole without concern for insulation. Thanks for settling that, I have no experience with tin. Native to north asphalt is king. There aren't many incidents of mold problems, but that might be because the pitch requirements are steeper. The bigger concern here is ice damming. Faux slate is getting its toes in, but I'm skeptical this isn't all about the HGTV 2 yr curb appeal that won't be what you thought it was 10yrs ahead. Pretty in pictures, but can it perform?
re: layered insulation. I saw years back (episode of this old hous) an insulation material meant for attic spaces. It was a foil covered foam board (or plastic? foil was facing outward) of modest thickness that had a corregated wide channel pattern allowing air flow/moisture from ridge to rafters. It was fastened loosely to the wood sheath layer between rafters, deflecting residual heat gain that the wood didn't prevent. Then if you wanted to have a finished attic, standard fiberglass insulation (now better protected from moisture) and sheetrock would complete the picture but result in a higher overall R value. How much higher? dont know. I never caught the name of this stuff, nor have I seen it since. Has it been disproven? Did it get ousted for material outgassing? All a mystery. Home depot/Lowes folks tilt their heads like confused puppies when I asked.
re:Modular houses= more of a science and less of an art. It's incredibly practical, but I miss the romance of architecture, the touch of a master carpenter. Yes, romance is costly, but dumbing down the workforce, increasing corporate dependance by starving out master carpenters is too. <ducks from hurled tomatoes>
Stigmas of modular are based on initial experiments that didn't hold up on the market. They've since worked out the bugs IMO. Value is definately there, but resale values may lag because of holdover stigmas. The whole house of straw/wood/brick argument. Time will tell, and truth will out. Levittown homes withstood the test. I think modulars will too.
I've seen close friends, over the topic of politics, tear each other apart and then, feelings hurt, glower at each other in eerie silence. Still, somehow, they always come back together. After they calm down a bit, I guess they come to realize that debate, nasty or nice, is sometimes the only way to press on to a workable solution.
ROFL can you imagine james carville and mary matalin settling disputes by throwing the dishes at each other daily?! Good thing they're grown ups, found a middle ground of respect, and defer to what's best for the whole family.
Back in the old days, insulation was sawdust between the studs..but the item was the 'roof over your head'
We have come a long way...and a ratio of cost, deesign, practicality, and value against building time must be realized...
Affordable basic modular construction can still be done for less that $100 per sq ft...that is a bargain anywhere in America.
Builder's do not drive up the cost...others do that...banks, realtors and appraisers. Now they are eating the s*** they created in the past several years...
About house wrap...it works...but for almost the same money a person can use fan-fold and it breathes. Wrap is inferior to fan-fold. Cost about $250 to envelope a regular ranch...seal the seams with tape and never look back...
Foam board and blue board is great and can be bought in a variety of thicknesses...the thickness is not the major issue...sealing out the air is. If a PEX water loop is used to heat a wooden floor, its a great material to insulate the floor joists cavities...
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But actually the person who put the nails in our tires made it clear he hates this country, even though he was born and educated here. Oh well. I just keep my mouth buttoned like I did as a kid. I'm covert about my political leanings and have fun discussing the commonalities among any party members out there (you'd be surprised how much folks agree on if they make the effort instead of looking for a fight). Anyway, my husband had to learn the hard way when he stumbled into that fellow. It was pretty costly.
