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That's true. You do more work by means of physical labor. But those who use their brains delegate work to those who do physical labor. Thus, you're responsible for moving one box, while someone in management is responsible for moving 1000s of boxes. At the end, the manager has gotten more work done.
That's such BS logic and a clear case of undeserving white collar arrogance.
Surgeons do a lot of physical labor and they "lift one box" at a time. Did the HMO middle manager who hired, delegated working arrangements, and oversaw the billing of 100 surgeons get more work done than a surgeon who works 70 hrs a week? That surgeon would have done his thing regardless of the existence of HMOs, insurance companies, hospital administrators, etc. Those things might help facilitate his practice a little more, but without HMOs and insurance companies, the surgeon would still be able to do his line of work (especially now with minimally invasive surgery). He is the revenue generator, not the paper-pushing manager.
Try running a hospital or HMO without a surgeon (this is not a hypothetical abstraction, it happens all the time when the only neurosurgeon at a hospital moves away, and the hospital has to shut down its trauma unit).
In the end, the person doing the operation is the surgeon. The paper-pushing desk jockey is still just a desk jockey on Excel and should not take credit for being responsible for 1000s of operations. That would be absurd and grossly arrogant.
That's such BS logic and a clear case of undeserving white collar arrogance.
Surgeons do a lot of physical labor and they "lift one box" at a time. Did the HMO middle manager who hired, delegated working arrangements, and oversaw the billing of 100 surgeons get more work done than a surgeon who works 70 hrs a week? That surgeon would have done his thing regardless of the existence of HMOs, insurance companies, hospital administrators, etc. Those things might help facilitate his practice a little more, but without HMOs and insurance companies, the surgeon would still be able to do his line of work (especially now with minimally invasive surgery). He is the revenue generator, not the paper-pushing manager.
Try running a hospital or HMO without a surgeon (this is not a hypothetical abstraction, it happens all the time when the only neurosurgeon at a hospital moves away, and the hospital has to shut down its trauma unit).
In the end, the person doing the operation is the surgeon. The paper-pushing desk jockey is still just a desk jockey on Excel and should not take credit for being responsible for 1000s of operations. That would be absurd and grossly arrogant.
First, Have you been following this thread at all? If you have, you'd see that I was purposely using fuzzy logic to combat TKramer's fuzzy logic that white collar workers don't do any work at all.
Second, Yes, if the HMO middle manager is delegating to the surgeons, they got more work done. You can't discount that they are enabling the ability to get a lot done more efficiently (atleast in theory).
I'm not saying that the middle manager is doing more important work. But they are getting more things done by the means of other people. Should they be credited for 1000s of operations? Well, if they're managing the surgeons, then yes. That's how management works.
In the end, the person doing the operation is the surgeon. The paper-pushing desk jockey is still just a desk jockey on Excel and should not take credit for being responsible for 1000s of operations. That would be absurd and grossly arrogant.
No one is saying that the "desk jockey" should be taking credit for 1000s of operations. But it's also absurd and grossly arrogant to suggest that the "desk jockey's" tasks are unnecessary.
The surgeon plays an important role. Without him or her, the patients will not treated and the goals of medical care will not be realized.
The "desk jockey" also plays an important role. Without him or her, the bills may not be paid, the claims may not be processed, the federal guidelines may not be adhered to, the books may not be balanced, the finances may not be correctly forecasted, the supplies may not be ordered, the salaries may not be paid...thus causing the enterprise to run into serious fiscal and/or legal trouble. And then the hospital will be forced to close and the surgeon will not be treating anyone and the goals of medical care will not be realized. If you repeat this across all hospitals...then where do you think the surgeon will be able to do his or her work? In their garage?
Why do some supposed adults on this forum not have the mental capacity to stop looking at the world in black and white and recognize that many different types of occupations are necessary in order for an organization's overall goals to be achieved? I really don't understand what is so difficult and controversial about this.
No one is saying that the "desk jockey" should be taking credit for 1000s of operations. But it's also absurd and grossly arrogant to suggest that the "desk jockey's" tasks are unnecessary.
The surgeon plays an important role. Without him or her, the patients will not treated and the goals of medical care will not be realized.
The "desk jockey" also plays an important role. Without him or her, the bills may not be paid, the claims may not be processed, the federal guidelines may not be adhered to, the books may not be balanced, the finances may not be correctly forecasted, the supplies may not be ordered, the salaries may not be paid...thus causing the enterprise to run into serious fiscal and/or legal trouble. And then the hospital will be forced to close and the surgeon will not be treating anyone and the goals of medical care will not be realized. If you repeat this across all hospitals...then where do you think the surgeon will be able to do his or her work? In their garage?
Why do some supposed adults on this forum not have the mental capacity to stop looking at the world in black and white and recognize that many different types of occupations are necessary in order for an organization's overall goals to be achieved? I really don't understand what is so difficult and controversial about this.
I agree completely. I have had this same argument about salespeople. I have worked for 2 different companies that treated salespeople like gold and Operations like they were a waste of space. These are the people that look at the company's books and see that Salesperson X brought in $Y this year, but Operations Person N only cost us money. That means that Salespeople are more important than Operations. They forget that Sales can sell every product or service that you have selling record numbers with high margins, but if there is no skilled Operations staff the orders will not be filled. Everyone from the CEO down to the data entry person is important. If they weren't the job wouldn't exist.
I do more work lifting a 50 pound box two feet off the ground. The mass and distance you refer to is so miniscule as to be insignificant.
Just like financial experts don't worry about the cents portion of any figure--they don't even talk about it.
All you lift is 50lbs at a time? Dude I have a friend that can lift from 600,000lbs to 800,000lbs at a time. He can also deliver that load 7,000 miles from where he picked it up. 50lbs, give me a break.
If you are on a flight and you need to toss one guy off the plane, would it be the man that lifts 50lbs and calls that work or the guy flying the plane that must be lazy for taking that kind of job?I would love to see the guy who lifts 50lbs try and fly a 747 around.
those who cannot be bothered to exert themselves physically, however, should not be allowed to live.
The 50 lbs was an example of the usual weight I need to lift. Air compressors, bench tools, generators, cabinets, toilets...all weigh quite a bit more than that, and I do it MYSELF, we don't do a two man lift at my job. Everyone has to pull their own weight, or you're not needed. If you need "help" to do it, then you can't do the job.
If you want to get something DONE, you have to actually DO something, not just "think about it".
Besides, thinking isn't difficult.
Before you can do something, it's usually best that someone does the thinking in order to make the activity feasible. You wouldn't even have 50 lb boxes to move if someone hadn't put in a lot of thought to put together and maintain a viable enterprise in the first place - much less develop most of the tools you use.
If thinking is so "easy" for you, then why don't you put your big brain to work by developing some new life-saving surgical techniques? Or perhaps you could develop a new airplane that will safely and more efficiently transport people half way across the globe? Or how about developing a new theoretical framework of physics that fills in some of the unsolved holes in current theories? Please report back on your progress. I'm sure society would be very grateful to you.
Thinking isn't difficult... if your little world mainly consists of 50 lb boxes and a few personal tax forms.
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