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Who produces a whole lot less? How are you figuring that? How long do you think someone producing less than the general population would stay employed?
Are you saying that everyone in the country has the exact same production rate? Explain that rational, please.
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Oh, you mean I could get 3 roommates, continue to duct tape my 12 year old car together, and choose between healthcare or savings? Whoopie, where do I sign up?
I know a number of people renting nice houses with three roommates. It sounds like a better solution to rent a 4/3 with three others (and split the utilities) than live in a crappy 1BR and foot it all yourself.
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Your solution isnt viable. It is not viable to suggest that the way to deal with rampant unemployment is for everyone to go out and invent something that will generate a living wage. Not only is it not viable, its not possible.
I never said everyone should do it. But you aren't even willing to give it a try. You'd rather complain about how much your life sicks.
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I was proving a point by giving anecdotal evidence right back. We can go on and on all day about who observed what in their place of business, doesnt prove anything on a macro level.
Bottom line, we've got 10,000 people retiring daily. Even if only half of those jobs are filled, that's 5000 new jobs opening a day. That's almost 2M jobs a year. While it's not going to get everyone back to work, it's a significant dent.
I expect tens of millions to keep on working way past when they wanted to retire. My Dad was going to retire in the next few years. His 401k took a bath lost over half of what he had. He said he will be working at least another 10 years maybe more. Many other older family members are in the same boat. As far as the mass of retirees opening up jobs. I would not count on that one happening. My last job as a temp over 30 people retired not one replaced. Family and friends see the same thing at their jobs. Just do more with less it is the way of the future. Jobs will be eliminated at a slow even pace. Only time I ever see someone replaced. You have a niche skill set or your in the technology industry or something. Otherwise you just chop the work up and give it to others. Technology will eliminate millions of jobs and replace them with nothing. We will keep shipping jobs overseas by the boatload. In the next 20 to 25 years. Technology will allow 25% of our jobs to go overseas. We are moving to an era when we will need less labor not more. Long term our economy will be stagnant low or no growth. Most likely another 5 to 10 years.
Are you saying that everyone in the country has the exact same production rate? Explain that rational, please.
Im not saying they do, clearly some jobs are worth more than others, because the product they are producing is more valuable. What Im saying is that looking at it in the conventional sense like "Oh, you flip burgers, you dont produce much" is wrong. That guy flipping burgers is producing a great deal more than his wage, which is going back in to the company, or the owner of the McDonalds pocket.
You are right, some people probably produce less than 61k, and some more. But its not an issue of a few people producing trillions, and everyone else producing nothing. Most people are probably right around that 61k.
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Originally Posted by annerk
I know a number of people renting nice houses with three roommates. It sounds like a better solution to rent a 4/3 with three others (and split the utilities) than live in a crappy 1BR and foot it all yourself.
Thats the thing, why should the only path to having a more than a crappy 1BR be to share expenses with other people? It doesnt have to be that way. We arent a third world country producing $1500 per person.
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Originally Posted by annerk
I never said everyone should do it. But you aren't even willing to give it a try. You'd rather complain about how much your life sicks.
I, like most people, do not have the capital or unique skill/product to "start a viable business". Besides, even if I did, so what? How does that help everyone else? That only helps me. This isnt about me, although I use myself as an empirical example ofter, but its only because I live every single day what Im talking about.
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Originally Posted by annerk
Bottom line, we've got 10,000 people retiring daily. Even if only half of those jobs are filled, that's 5000 new jobs opening a day. That's almost 2M jobs a year. While it's not going to get everyone back to work, it's a significant dent.
Any jobs coming open because of retirees are being offset by other job losses. That 2 million jobs created is not trickling to the bottom line. At best, they are helping out keeping unemployment steady, just a band aid on the bleeding.
It started in the late 60's as more and more people fled to the suburbs, requiring a second family car.
And in all honesty, most of the dual income households I know could live on one salary, they choose not to in order to fund better educations for their children and better retirements for themselves.
As well as bigger homes, more vehicles and newer ones per residence, more vacations, bigger tvs, and a ton more toys than Ozzie & Harriet had in the 50s. In short, a good deal of Harriet's need to work is driven by larger discretionary spending now than in Harriet's era.
Im not saying they do, clearly some jobs are worth more than others, because the product they are producing is more valuable. What Im saying is that looking at it in the conventional sense like "Oh, you flip burgers, you dont produce much" is wrong. That guy flipping burgers is producing a great deal more than his wage, which is going back in to the company, or the owner of the McDonalds pocket.
You are right, some people probably produce less than 61k, and some more. But its not an issue of a few people producing trillions, and everyone else producing nothing. Most people are probably right around that 61k.
I'm guessing it's a bell curve with about 30% producing 40-60% and the rest on either side of the curve.
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Thats the thing, why should the only path to having a more than a crappy 1BR be to share expenses with other people? It doesnt have to be that way. We arent a third world country producing $1500 per person.
Why should you expect anything more? What are you doing to make yourself more marketable, to figure out how to earn more money?
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I, like most people, do not have the capital or unique skill/product to "start a viable business". Besides, even if I did, so what? How does that help everyone else? That only helps me. This isnt about me, although I use myself as an empirical example ofter, but its only because I live every single day what Im talking about.
I know several people who started companies with under $200 in capital. I have a friend who is a real estate broker. I met her in 1994, she had just spent $99 to get her license and was selling real estate evenings and weekends. During the day she worked as a receptionist at a dental office. In 1998 she quit her day job and began selling real estate full time. In 2003 she opened her own brokerage in a small rented space (about 250 s/f for $550 a month). She went through a few really lean years, but survived. Business has really picked up over the past couple of years and she's back to doing great. Last year she paid cash for the building her business operates out of.
I have another friend who started his own company evenings and weekends fixing lawn mowers in his garage about 10 years ago. Total start up cost was a $20 business license. He now has a large shop and repairs lawn mowers and golf carts. The bad economy helped him, instead of dumping the old mower and buying a new one, people fixed the old one. He quit his day job about four years ago.
I have another friend who became frustrated with the inability to get anything but a large bulk quantity of a certain product she needed for a type of craft she does. She began buying it in bulk (about $100 outlay) and reselling what she didn't need to friends. Long story short, she now owns a craft supply shop and did over a million dollars in Internet sales last year.
The list goes on.
How does it help others? They all have employees working for them. They've built businesses that now employ people. They created jobs.
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Any jobs coming open because of retirees are being offset by other job losses. That 2 million jobs created is not trickling to the bottom line. At best, they are helping out keeping unemployment steady, just a band aid on the bleeding.
My point is that I think over the next year or so we are going to begin to see those jobs begin to open to new hires.
As well as bigger homes, more vehicles and newer ones per residence, more vacations, bigger tvs, and a ton more toys than Ozzie & Harriet had in the 50s. In short, a good deal of Harriet's need to work is driven by larger discretionary spending now than in Harriet's era.
There's another way to look at it as well. In Harriet's time, it was odd for a woman to work outside the home. Generally the only women that did were either single, newlywed but not pregnant yet, divorcees, or widows.
The exception to that rule were teachers and librarians who often returned to the workforce for a decade or so after their children had grown but before their husbands retired. For some reason, nurses seldom did.
By the way, in my opinion, the birth control pill was a big part of that change.
As well as bigger homes, more vehicles and newer ones per residence, more vacations, bigger tvs, and a ton more toys than Ozzie & Harriet had in the 50s. In short, a good deal of Harriet's need to work is driven by larger discretionary spending now than in Harriet's era.
Yes, and now this trend is happening in places like Mexico. This is what happens when countries openly embrace the free market, instead of leeching off it and interfering every step of the way like our government... Prosperity
And you believe that this is just going to happen in perpetuity, even after aircraft are flying themselves, and you and your buddies are out on your asses?
I am not going to worry what may happen a century from now.
As of right now, my position is secure and I'm going to live my life for me. It is not my responsibility to care about others en mass. If someone wants my assistance, I give it, but I'm not going to alter my life because their life isnt up to par. Each time I go out and live, I;m spending money that employs someone. It's not my business if they think they should get $15 an hour but only getting $9, NO, my business is to live and spend as I want.
I think the time has come to come right out and say " Just cause your life is in the toilet, doens't mean I should flush myself down with you!". Yeah, I got a darn good job and that gives me the money to do what I want; when I want; how I want! If you don't have that, get a job in the industry where we are spending the money so you can get your share of it, otherwise sleep innthe bed you made. But, please don't make it sound like we owe you anything of what we have cause you don't have!
Im not saying they do, clearly some jobs are worth more than others, because the product they are producing is more valuable. What Im saying is that looking at it in the conventional sense like "Oh, you flip burgers, you dont produce much" is wrong. That guy flipping burgers is producing a great deal more than his wage, which is going back in to the company, or the owner of the McDonalds pocket.
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As he should. The revenue is used beyond profit to pay him, related taxes, income taxes, property taxes, materials, building costs, utilities, repairs, and any miscellaneous expenditures. Only an idiot would wonder why wage is NOT equal to value added. Labor took NO risk-their payment for services rendered was guaranteed to them, lest the DOL come after the risk taker.
I am not going to worry what may happen a century from now.
As of right now, my position is secure and I'm going to live my life for me. It is not my responsibility to care about others en mass. If someone wants my assistance, I give it, but I'm not going to alter my life because their life isnt up to par. Each time I go out and live, I;m spending money that employs someone. It's not my business if they think they should get $15 an hour but only getting $9, NO, my business is to live and spend as I want.
I think the time has come to come right out and say " Just cause your life is in the toilet, doens't mean I should flush myself down with you!". Yeah, I got a darn good job and that gives me the money to do what I want; when I want; how I want! If you don't have that, get a job in the industry where we are spending the money so you can get your share of it, otherwise sleep innthe bed you made. But, please don't make it sound like we owe you anything of what we have cause you don't have!
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