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Seriously, a bit of a tiny rant. I miss the days of good programmers. When I hired someone that claimed to be a senior programmer with umpteen years of experience, that meant I knew they understood simple concepts like OOP, data structures, etc. However, nowadays I get these developers that are closer to hack programmers than the genuine article. I'm talking some BAD code!!
So a question. How do I find them? How do I root out the ones that are truly talented from the hacks that couldn't design an elegant procedure if their life depended on it?
I kind of get why a lot of IT companies are hiring overseas talent and bringing them in. Because based on what I'm seeing, there's a pretty shallow of pool of truly good developers out there.
Also, I think some employers need to have some realistic expectations. Is your pay and the type of work something that would intrigue the truly good developers to apply to your firm? Because most of the truly good developers would either be working at companies like Google, Amazon, etc or creating their own startup companies living in major cities. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but some employers need to set their expectations to be realistic.
Also, I think some employers need to have some realistic expectations. Is your pay and the type of work something that would intrigue the truly good developers to apply to your firm? Because most of the truly good developers would either be working at companies like Google, Amazon, etc or creating their own startup companies living in major cities. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but some employers need to set their expectations to be realistic.
In the past, I've relied upon the standard job engines, networking, etc. This has not garnered enough applicants with the qualifications I would be MORE than happy to pay for. Pay, etc is never a problem when I do find a good one - I have a very low turnover rate. However, my main issue has been literally just finding those good people to begin with.
I'm not looking for the next Bill Gates or anything but being self-taught some .NET or Java just isn't going to cut it for a senior level position. I've done the hire them young right out of college and mentor them which has had some success but I have my fill of junior developers and really need a good crop of senior developers.
I wonder if I would be better served by hiring a recruiting company or something? This is my own fault at the end of the day. I've been so involved in growing my business that I didn't pay attention to how I would need to fill positions once I did grow. A shortcoming on my part clearly.
I'm not sure of the situation in SC, but around here our inability to find qualified programmers (e.g., someone who could be my peer, participate in code-reviews of my work, handle issues in code I've designed when I'm on vacation, take over for me should I get hit by a bus, etc.) is mostly a matter that our management is offering such low salaries. We did try to find someone a few years ago, and I found a couple of good candidates, but they didn't get past the phone interview, and I think it was because of the salary requirements. The company ended up hiring a college sophomore on a student visa as an intern, instead of the new, permanent senior developer we needed, and I believe it is solely because that's all the money they were willing to devote to staffing.
I'm not sure of the situation in SC, but around here our inability to find qualified programmers (e.g., someone who could be my peer, participate in code-reviews of my work, handle issues in code I've designed when I'm on vacation, take over for me should I get hit by a bus, etc.) is mostly a matter that our management is offering such low salaries. We did try to find someone a few years ago, and I found a couple of good candidates, but they didn't get past the phone interview, and I think it was because of the salary requirements. The company ended up hiring a college sophomore on a student visa as an intern, instead of the new, permanent senior developer we needed, and I believe it is solely because that's all the money they were willing to devote to staffing.
I detest that low ball salary philosophy. I have always been of the mindset that you get better productivity and thus more business if you're willing to hire (with great pay) for the best. Down here in Charleston, we're starting to see some inroads in the IT industry but I think we just do not have the same pool of applicants as some other areas do.
In the past, I've relied upon the standard job engines, networking, etc. This has not garnered enough applicants with the qualifications I would be MORE than happy to pay for. Pay, etc is never a problem when I do find a good one - I have a very low turnover rate. However, my main issue has been literally just finding those good people to begin with.
I'm not looking for the next Bill Gates or anything but being self-taught some .NET or Java just isn't going to cut it for a senior level position. I've done the hire them young right out of college and mentor them which has had some success but I have my fill of junior developers and really need a good crop of senior developers.
I wonder if I would be better served by hiring a recruiting company or something? This is my own fault at the end of the day. I've been so involved in growing my business that I didn't pay attention to how I would need to fill positions once I did grow. A shortcoming on my part clearly.
I can tell you, being a young one myself, and working with young ones, we aren't wasting time with old frameworks like .NET and Java, at my current job I'm tasked with getting rid of that mess and using an alternative. Most senior people I know just moved on to management.
You can't hire good programmers, you have to develop them in house or networking for them and be a prime position.
I don't think true senior programmers even apply for jobs anymore. I do not consider myself a particularly great programmer; I just know geospatial object models extremely well. This alone is enough to get lead developers at significant companies asking me if I am interested in changing jobs. When I do change, it will definitely not be through an application process. A few of my friends are the type of programmers that are in demand in Silicon Valley, and they rarely are at a company more than two years. They come in for a project they like, make their money, and leave to the next project they like.
The very senior development type jobs usually have in-depth technical interviews. The interviewers are senior techies and they ask many design and technique questions such as 'explain how you would do zyx in this scenario' . "what was your role in this project". "if you have code scenario A, explain what you would do to meet this new requirement B.".
"when ABC stops working and you have to fix it right away, explain the steps required to identify the problem and explain what you would do to fix immediately and also explain what you would do for a long term solution."
You expect a senior developer to explain, on the fly (during the interview), how to solve techical issues. And they should be able to verbally explain several scenarios explained where they actually have hands on work experience ...down to a very technical level. You need to know exactly what their role was on the team and what others did. Some BSers will explain tasks that others completed and make it seem like it was their own. A few Q and A that digs deep enough will identify if they did the hands on task. Because the BSers will flounder if you dig deep enough with the Q and A.
In other words, you need someone to interview the candidate that knows as much as the candidate...to decide if the candidate really knows their stuff or if they are simply have a small amout of experience mixed with buzzwords.
There ARE lots of great developers out there. But there are also lots of embelished resumes. Before you hire, you want the interview process to weed out those that are BSing.
If you don't have the in-house skill set to properly weed out candidates during the interview...than maybe get with some recruiters and go with 90 day temp-to-perm. Keep them if they are good and keep going through them until you find a good fit. It's kind of like a 90 day interview.
The more technical bullet points that you put on your job ad, the more you will pinpoint the exact type of candidate you need. If your job ad is too general, you might not be getting what you really need as far as applicants.
If you really want the best of the best, then allow yourself to attract the perfect candidate that might be 1000 miles away. How do you do this? You offer it as a 100% telecommute position. But you make the job ad very detailed. Great programmers have lots of jobs to choose from. They will be more likely to choose a telecommute job.
Last edited by sware2cod; 09-14-2013 at 08:46 AM..
Seriously, a bit of a tiny rant. I miss the days of good programmers. When I hired someone that claimed to be a senior programmer with umpteen years of experience, that meant I knew they understood simple concepts like OOP, data structures, etc. However, nowadays I get these developers that are closer to hack programmers than the genuine article. I'm talking some BAD code!!
So a question. How do I find them? How do I root out the ones that are truly talented from the hacks that couldn't design an elegant procedure if their life depended on it?
I kind of get why a lot of IT companies are hiring overseas talent and bringing them in. Because based on what I'm seeing, there's a pretty shallow of pool of truly good developers out there.
I won't get in to the economics of IT hiring, but I would make any promising candidates (i.e. they passed a phone screen and have good CREDIBLE references) come in and walk through some white board problems such as Fizz Buzz and coding a method for reversing a double liked list. Also have them walk through some of your code and explain what it is doing. This gives you an opportunity to gauge their thought processes as well as their communications skills. If more than 50% of the candidates don't make the cut here, you might want to rethink your sourcing strategy. Fire any recruiters or agencies who are wasting your time with sub par candidates. The concepts you find lacking tell me you should require a bachelor's degree in Computer Science with a 3.0 GPA and at least 2 years of experience with .NET/C# or Java. Are your requirements in line with this? If you are willing to train, reach out to the employment office of one of your local colleges. If you want experienced candidates, try your local State Employment office or the Linked In website. Some managers I know swear by craigslist for finding contractors but my mileage has varied.
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