Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is why I posted in the past that no one should have children unless the household income equals about 100K (a little less in rural areas) and there is least 50K in the bank with health insurance.
Too many people have children when they can't afford it.
The guy in the story is not getting sympathy for me due to him mentioning that engagement ring. It's also apparent that he can't afford a car either.
In the span of two posts, your attitude has changed 100%.
You need a decent income, with health insurance, but this "requirement" that one needs 50K in the bank to start with is absolutely ludicrous.
This is why I posted in the past that no one should have children unless the household income equals about 100K (a little less in rural areas) and there is least 50K in the bank with health insurance.
Too many people have children when they can't afford it.
The guy in the story is not getting sympathy for me due to him mentioning that engagement ring. It's also apparent that he can't afford a car either.
Now, I wouldn't go to that extreme.
That means only the Top 20% of households or so can have children.
There's no set number, but you should have some kind of education and career if you plan on having a child.
For instance a woman with a college degree and several years of experience in 'something' who makes 40K and has a young son? That's totally doable. It won't be a lavish lifestyle or anything but you can get by and even do some fun things with that income and one child ... in a high cost area.
But that situation is more rare. Typically, it's no education, no skills, and a litter of children. Never ceases to blow my mind.
I am sorry anybody in their 40s with decent health is working long term jobs for just over minimum wage deserve to be there. Especially in California where in state tuition is very low for community and even 4 years colleges, as well as there being plenty of programs to help people either finish high school or get their GED. I know for a fact that someone can become a mechanic in about 18 months, they can become a truck driver in 1 semester, it does not have to be a long term plan.
If the problem is not in education but in where he lives, than great easy problem to solve, when you get those big refund checks for EIC and child tax credits next year, pick up your family and move, with the low income you are used to surviving on a 6,500 refund should be more than enough to move and live on for a month or two while you find a better job. Of course I know they need a new 50" inch TV and a computer, not to mention paying off that engagement ring and stuff, so they cannot afford to improve their lives.
Also before anybody starts, I worked 2 or 3 jobs, while attending college 12-15 credit hours a semester, and having a wife and 2 kids, one of which is special needs and forced my wife to only work limited hours when our kids were in school so she could take care of her. Sometimes I went months without a day off, and many weeks it did not feel like I got a break, I was working, in class, or studying every minutes i was awake. However to get out of the situation we were in I had to do the work, and survive while I built my skills to get into something more stable. So you will have to excuse me if I do not feel sorry for him since he has 2 kids.
Fact of the matter is it is not my responsibility or anybody else's to help him get out of his mess, it is not his employers problem that he chooses to continue to work a job that will not support his family, it is his responsibility and until he chooses to do something about his situation than why should anybody feel sorry for him?
Of course the whole diamond thing was largely made up by DeBeers in the 30's to sell it to the mass public. HowStuffWorks "Diamond Marketing" I'm sorry but if you can't eat it or find someone to know how much it is worth then what is the purpose then?
This is why I posted in the past that no one should have children unless the household income equals about 100K (a little less in rural areas) and there is least 50K in the bank with health insurance.
Too many people have children when they can't afford it.
The guy in the story is not getting sympathy for me due to him mentioning that engagement ring. It's also apparent that he can't afford a car either.
Do you realize that 100K a year is almost double the median household income in the United States? So are you saying that only upper middle class people and above should be able to have children? There are millions of kids being raised in households where the parents only make $40-50K a year, and they turn out just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Flower
But you are questioning why a person can't work harder. You are giving a simple answer for a complex problem.
You say work harder. Let's say the job someone is able to get wants a person to be flexible and available for any shift. How is someone working 9 bucks an hour going to work harder and work a second job? Maybe you say, oh, just bide your time, get that second job after a number of months (or years?) when you get a better schedule. Okay, but in the short run, what's a person to do?
I'm using this as an example of how it is not easy to just work harder. Do people do it? YES YES YES.
Does that mean everyone can do it? no
If the company you are working for only pays $9 an hour, than that job is easily replaceable, they do not get the right to have you on call at all hours. Just like that employee is easily replaceable, which is why companies only pay them $9 an hour. Nobody is forcing you to take that job.
If that is the only job in your area than you take the job until you get that nice big check me and the rest of the tax payers send you in February full of refundable tax credits, and you move to an area where you can get better jobs.
I am sorry anybody in their 40s with decent health is working long term jobs for just over minimum wage deserve to be there. Especially in California where in state tuition is very low for community and even 4 years colleges, as well as there being plenty of programs to help people either finish high school or get their GED. I know for a fact that someone can become a mechanic in about 18 months, they can become a truck driver in 1 semester, it does not have to be a long term plan.
It is relatively easy to get to around 30K a year. Relatively.
For instance, a certification as a medical assistant is about 18 months, or a mechanic as you suggest. Any number of skilled trades.
Some good experience or a full fledged bachelors should get you to 40K after a little while.
Increasing your salary after that becomes a bit more tricky. But I would say IMHO, that would be the income and training level at which you could reasonably consider having a kid if you are a responsible person, 30-40K.
Just telling someone to go to college isn't the answer either. I know scores of people who went to community college to get two year degrees in subjects like "psychology" or "general studies" who end up back working minimum wage at Walmart anyway. And this a service economy now which are primarily low wage occupations. Until we can fully automate those jobs we will have loads of people working those jobs and struggling to survive.
It is relatively easy to get to around 30K a year. Relatively.
For instance, a certification as a medical assistant is about 18 months, or a mechanic as you suggest. Any number of skilled trades.
Some good experience or a full fledged bachelors should get you to 40K after a little while.
Increasing your salary after that becomes a bit more tricky. But I would say IMHO, that would be the income and training level at which you could reasonably consider having a kid if you are a responsible person, 30-40K.
I will agree, it is not that hard to move from minimum wage up to $30K but can get harder to get from 30 up to 50, although it changes dramatically depending on the line of work.
Fact is it takes some work and a plan, but in a year or to any typical person that does not have a major disabilities (like autism, mental retardation, or cerebral palsy) should be able to dig themselves out of minimum wage work within a year or two. By the time someone is in their 40s they should have figured out how to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker
Just telling someone to go to college isn't the answer either. I know scores of people who went to community college to get two year degrees in subjects like "psychology" or "general studies" who end up back working minimum wage at Walmart anyway. And were a service economy now which are primarily low wage occupations. Untill we can fully automate those jobs we will have loads of people working those jobs and struggling to survive.
I agree telling someone to go to college is not the answer, telling someone to go learn a real trade with real world demand is much better. Throughout much of the country there is a demand for mechanics, truck drivers, plumbers, electricians, construction workers, HVAC, and plenty of other trades. Usually you can learn how to do it with a semester or two at a decent community college. In your 40s there is no reason to work yourself to death for a minimum or near minimum wage job when you have had 24 years since high school to find someway to make enough to at least earn enough of a living to pay your bills.
Just telling someone to go to college isn't the answer either. I know scores of people who went to community college to get two year degrees in subjects like "psychology" or "general studies" who end up back working minimum wage at Walmart anyway. And this a service economy now which are primarily low wage occupations. Until we can fully automate those jobs we will have loads of people working those jobs and struggling to survive.
Nothing is a guarantee, but bachelors versus no bachelors is a very good shot at least.
Unless you have already surpassed that level on your own without it, I think everybody with some ambition should work their way to at least a bachelors degree. Being stuck at Walmart forever (on the floor at least) with a bachelors degree is atypical. For a while possibly, yes.
Degrees in skilled trades and medical fields, and computers are very good too.
On the other hand, going for a doctorate in Russian Literature or something similar has much less chance to pay off.
As far as the major, sorry to say, but when you have children, you have given up your freedom so to speak. You are now responsible for somebody else. A degree in Psychology probably is not prudent. Perhaps more along the lines of healthcare, computers, or skilled trades.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
