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I got an MS in 1997. One of my fellow graduates never left the lab and continued to do research. I know that more than 10 years ago he was making more than 40,000 a year. He's married with a child, and has a house in a high cost of living city. I believe his wife does similar work, so it's not like she's a zillionaire supporting them both.
This wasn't physics, but it was a scientific lab. It seems like it's possible to get a better gig then you've got, although maybe in physics the slave labor situation is worse?
I have a friend with a physics PhD and he got out. He is working at Fermi Lab. Another friend with a Physics PhD is at NASA in Maryland. So you can get out. These people both got jobs out of school. You have to try, and with the postdocs, you do have experience. You will never know unless you go for it. My husband has a PhD in geology, and I remember seeing the postdocs, and I told him there was no way we were doing that.
Sounds like your friend and cousin hit the jackpot. I would still count Fermi lab and NASA to be apart of academia, so I wouldn't exactly say they 'got out'. If they managed to get these jobs right out of school, then I'll just say they are much better and capable physicists than I. In fact, I'd describe them as exceptional as you have to be to beat out all of the other applicants for the vanishingly small number of jobs at both places.
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Originally Posted by Coney
I can understand how it would be difficult to get something at Brookhaven or Cold Spring. It's extremely competitive. Instead of the cleaning job, how about teaching physics part-time at a prep school. You won't need to be licensed and they would snap you up.
If you know of schools that offer part-time work during the weekends, I'd definitely be interested in such an opportunity. Unfortunately, there would be no way to fit this into my daily schedule on the business days.
My one son dated a girl making just over $50,000 per year as an Adjunct Professor teaching 3-5 classes a semester (she averaged about 35 work hours per week). She has a MA in English, so you would be well qualified for any adjunt position with a PhD. You may want to look into what's available at local colleges and universities, as well as some of the online schools/teaching online classes in adjunct or lecture positions.
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Originally Posted by Mnseca
I"m a little confused, because with your hours, even as an adjunct, you would make more than 32K. I make that as an adjunct, and I only teach about 15 contact hours a week. I don't know the physics field very well, though. I guess things could be different.
This is a comment to the OP & for the posters that are suggesting being an adjunct professor.
Yes, some schools pay more but many/some schools that I know pay their adjunct or part time professors very little.. There is a huge difference between huge well known Universities and small colleges or "for profit" schools.
Yes, I am sure that there are people who earn very nice salaries as part-time college instructors or non-tenure track professors but my friend (ABD) teaches one three credit college class per semester and is paid only $2,500 a semester. (just one more anecdotal piece of data)
OP, good luck on your job hunt. I hope that everything works out well for you.
Last edited by germaine2626; 03-15-2015 at 10:26 AM..
This is a comment to the OP & for the posters that are suggesting being an adjunct professor.
Yes, some schools pay more but many/some schools that I know pay their adjunct or part time professors very little.. There is a huge difference between huge well known Universities and small colleges or "for profit" schools.
Yes, I am sure that there are people who earn very nice salaries as part-time college instructors or non-tenure track professors but my friend (ABD) teaches one three credit college class per semester and is paid only $2,500 a semester. (just one more anecdotal piece of data)
OP, good luck on your job hunt. I hope that everything works out well for you.
Most adjunct professors are paid between $3200-$3600 per 3 hour class - I have been looking into this as a second income during retirement. $2500 per class is low, but I have heard that figure for a certain for profit university.
4 classes x 3 Semesters (summer too) x 3200 is $38,400. Figure about 25 hours per week for that course load, and the OP cuts his hours more than in half, add another class per semester and he's just under $50,000 for about a 40 hour work week.
Yup, he would need to be a little aggressive to get that done, but it is not that difficult to do for a motivated individual.
Also, adjunct are frequently hired into full time positions at the colleges they are adjuncts at, so that is an additional upside to this option.
Highlands_
I skimmed through the replies and saw many great suggestions have been offered. Having known people in the academia world who are in similar predicament like your, I am very sympathetic & would like to add some of my thoughts.
For the short term solution or remedy, you should definitely look into private tutoring either online or locally (put ads everywhere, checks ads, send inquiries, ask all the folks that you know or meet etc). You should definitely cut back on the time you devote to your current job The PI may not like it and will try to put pressure on you but I think that it is not easy for him/her? to find competent, industrious academic slave like you!
You should also search for a better replacement job preferably with something that you like to do or willing to do. Being a professor for an online university, a community college or a small university/college in a foreign country with better pay or in a lower COL area would be better than slaving away in your current job. The trade off is that you may not be able to do interesting research work but you may find that you will enjoy the new flavor of academic work in addition of being able to make a living.
For longer term solution, I'd highly recommend checking into Federal/State jobs. I don't remember the website but there is one where you can sign up and get notifications of job openings. Several of my siblings/friends had switched careers (either by choice or by necessity - early retirement/laid off etc) from private industry to State & Fed jobs. I was told that there are tests/exams that you can take and if you score high in addition to meeting the requirements, you are hired. The main trick in getting a Government job is to GET YOUR FOOT IN THE DOOR. Apply and try to get not only an entry level but even a job peripherally related to your field or interest. Once you are a Gov employee, you can ask for a transfer, take exam to get a job upgrade or a more suitable job. A friend of mine had his recruiting business shutdown few years back with online services, he wanted to get a job with Fed to add more service years to his previous work to qualify for retirement/health care benefit etc. He took a job working as a TSA worker being on his feet, checking/heaving luggage !! It was brutal for a person of his age with lots of business experience and education (he graduated years ago the top of his MBA class and ran a successful recruiting business for many years!). After few months, he got a much better job in the other coast (where he wanted to relocate).
Good luck with your job searches and career change.
You've been given some good info, bad info, and misunderstood info. First thing to understand is it sounds like your PI has been leading you on and you have fallen for it enough that you doubt your ability outside the PI's lab. Frankly as a physics PhD, who's 41, you should have been out of the PostDoc role several years ago and into assistant if not tenure track position. If you aren't on that by now, you should be looking outside academia.
Ok, here's some of the straight skinny on getting Fed jobs. I am hiring physicists right now. While competition for some Federal jobs is intense, there are not near as many applicants for STEM positions as you might think. The basic STEM qualifications trim a lot out, and then the fact that, regardless of appearances, Fed pay is a good bit lower than industry for the same skillset/experience means it's hard to get qualified applicants. They typically don't leave industry to come here. So the competition really isn't as stiff as you might think.
Next, whoever mentioned above at GS 14 is only partially correct. Most entry PhD jobs would be GS9/11 with full performance at the 12/13 level. There are very few at the 14 level and most of those, while perhaps listed as physicist or engineer, are really managerial positions. Now with your years experience, you might be able to come in at a higher level, but to gain entry you should be looking at anything from GS7 on up.
It seems like someone has done a number on your self confidence making you think you are only qualified for exactly what you are doing right now. You need to broaden that understanding to your basic skill set. You are most likely far more qualified for a far more diverse range of work than you consider yourself for. Within the Fed, I'd suggest you also consider 801 General Engineer, perhaps some of the other engineer series, 1301, Gen Phys, 1310 Physicist, perhaps 1330. Also consider some of the mathematics and operations research positions such as 1501 & 1515. Many positions are interdisciplinary in nature and the evaluation standard allows for specific coursework and experience to qualify for the position. IE I am a physicist in an 861 Aerospace Engineer position and have held other position codes. My point is, don't limit your search to jobs that exactly match what you think a physicist is, but look beyond to what the actual duties and skill codes are. After spending some time looking at jobs and the job standards, you will know better what jobs match your background and you are interested in. BTW, be sure to look at for the .gov or .mil websites for personnel issues. There are a lot of outfits out there that will be happy to take your money for the same application information that is on the OPM website.
While knowing someone is of a slight benefit, for the entry level especially, there is less of that in the Fed than many people presume. In most cases those who assume that were really not qualified. Last job I hired had 10 applicants. Of them, 7 didn't meet the basic qualifications.
You can get paid more being a high school math teacher in Indiana, and you would not need to get an education degree in this state. Also the vocational schools such as Ivy Tech are well funded here and would probably hire you. 32K is pathetic. Get an easier life - universities are screwing their professors. This has become a national disgrace. The remainder of your life is up to you.
There's got to be tons of headhunters out there who would love to get you interviews. I'm thinking your main problem is being used to working on college campuses and being hesitant about other forms of (non-ivy) employment. You could even make a decent living tutoring and traveling the world if you wanted.
Check out the research institutes in San Francisco, Palo Alto and San Diego. They're begging for people with your background.
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