If Minimum wage increases to 15 Dollars an hour, does that mean we all get a raise as well? (credit, degrees)

[PS90]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

Eventually lots of people will get more. Not right away but down the line.

I agree with this, but until this so-called wage increase travels up the line from the lower class to the middle class, then the middle class is going to suffer.

Think about it - as soon as the minimum wage goes to $15/hour, the companies that employ a large number of lower class workers are IMMEDIATELY going to raise prices to make up for those labor increases. Many of the companies that employ large numbers of lower class workers provide many of the staples that all of us live on every day - agriculture, textiles, other factory-produced goods, etc.

So, in the short-term, everything that we buy will go up in cost, while the average middle-class-worker's salary will stagnate.

Of course, eventually, the middle class' salaries will probably go up to match, but not before the average worth of the middle class takes a nose-dive.

And, if the middle class' wages do eventually go up to match, then what did this all really accomplish in the end?

[Storm Eagle]

Originally Posted by Trucker7

If somebody had "cared" for me when I was making $4.25/hr back in the 90's, I would not have found any reason to better myself. Instead, because nobody "cared" I decided to take responsibility of myself and move forward. I flipped burgers for McDonalds and delivered pizza for Pizza Hut. Then, I got my CDL, found a job driving city buses and now work as a diesel truck mechanic. I am far from being a one percenter, but make enough to take care of myself and my family. There are decent paying jobs out there if you're willing to look for them.

There are some decent paying jobs out there sure but enough for everybody no there is not. You and other people on here seem to not understand our economy is a pyramid lots of jobs at the bottom but less and less when you move up so there has to be some people at the bottom.

[Storm Eagle]

Originally Posted by brownbagg

but some of them are not worth the $7.25. I think there should be no minimum wages, why should government tell you how good your people are.

This is the kind of mindset people who owned slaves had. So tell me what are you basing worth on do you have evidence of any kind? If a person works then they are worth enough to get paid enough to live on if not then that job does not need to exist. Why should we let business tell them how good people are is it so they can continue to pay pitiful wages? What is the point of even working a job if you do not get payed enough to live on you may as well sit at home and collect government assistance.

[Curious Discussion]

In the final analysis, while some people move up and leave low wage labor behind, our economy supports a large number of people who are only able to get low wage jobs that pay under $15 an hour. In many US States, especially in the south, as much as 49% of the workforce make under $15 an hour. People are going to do these jobs regardless, the work needs to be done.

Who pays in the end, consumers with higher prices, businesses with lower profits, or tax payers with more welfare spending?

[bUU]

Originally Posted by jertheber

I see the working class squabbling among each other over this fifteen dollar an hour wage debate and wonder how we ever got to the point that we fight among ourselves but refuse to group together for a common front against those who would have us working for peanuts if they could. The guy on top is their hero and their new enemy is now the guy on the bottom, I guess it makes some people feel good that there will be someone lower than them.

As I just posted in another thread in this forum, there's a strong thread of cynicism and "divide and conquer" strategy that runs through such opposition to solutions. One of the most effective ways for those who have much to safeguard what they have, to the exclusion of how that harms those most vulnerable in society, is to use a bit of what they have to foster a general and pervasive attitude that being out for one's self is not only excusable but worthy of merit. Our society has effectively restyled the sin of selfishness and elevated it to a virtue. That conversion is one of the pillars on which is grounded the opposition to employment justice and broader economic justice.

Originally Posted by jertheber

The sad truth of fifteen dollars an hour is that we all know we wouldn't work for this kind of money and yet we openly advocate a wage of less than this pittance for others out of fear of our own dollars being spent.

And this is supported greatly, not only by the restyling of selfishness, but also by the hollowing out of the middle, both in terms of perspective (the vanishing moderates) but also in terms of economic status (the vanishing middle class). The strategy is clearly going to be supported best by having people who are more so either callous rich people or desperate poor people.

Originally Posted by jertheber

I can't remember a time when this minimum wage debate wasn't carried on without the accompanying chorus of naysayers fearing for their chump change wealth being undermined by anther working stiff, over fifty years of seeing the minimum wage rise along with poverty in America..

I'm sure some cynical folks see the rise of the middle class as that which brought about much of the ills of the world, because the middle class had enough understanding of poverty, being much closer to it, and less panic than destitute people would have about changes that make things better for those less fortunate than themselves.

Originally Posted by Trucker7

If somebody had "cared" for me when I was making $4.25/hr back in the 90's, I would not have found any reason to better myself.

You shouldn't project your own professed disinterest in industriousness onto others. And more importantly, you shouldn't use your own attitude in that regard as rationalization for inhumane consideration of others.

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

This is the kind of mindset people who owned slaves had.

That's part of the effect of the corrupt restyling of selfishness from sin to virtue. If you just consider "others" as tokens on a game board, and perhaps "opposing" tokens, then that rationalizes all manner of offensively inhumane attitudes toward those people.

[Rkstar71]

Originally Posted by brownbagg

I think there should be no minimum wages, why should government tell you how good your people are.

I used to agree with that idea of getting rid of the minimum wage. In theory, with no minimum wage the power would shift to those looking for work instead of the employers hiring. Potential employees would bid on jobs with clear job descriptions. And if the employers needed help so bad they'd be forced to hire one of the bidders.

But there are a lot of desperate people who settle for low standards in life and have zero self worth that tell employers they'll work for anything. That would mess it up for anyone with higher standards and knows they have skills to do a good job. That's what is happening now in California...at least in the L.A. Area.

[ged_782]

What about governmental entities (like Federal, State, and local), that pay less than $15/hour? Shouldn't they be setting an example for the private sector?

Our local city recently announced a major increase in the minimum wage paid to city government employees (still less than $15/hour), but a some of those lesser-paying positions have been phased-out, over the last few years. For example, garbage collection used to be accomplished by 3-person crews, but new automated trucks and collection bins have cut that down to just one person (the driver). Positions have been eliminated through attrition, and reassignments. Other departments, like custodial services, are being phased-out as internal functions, through attrition and reassignments, and are being outsourced to private contract providers, who aren't bound by the higher minimum wage. The city's higher minimum wage also doesn't apply to employees classified as temporary, contract, or part-time.

Overall, the city's employee headcount has been declining, although the population of the city (not just the metro), has been increasing.

[Trucker7]

Originally Posted by bUU

You shouldn't project your own professed disinterest in industriousness onto others. And more importantly, you shouldn't use your own attitude in that regard as rationalization for inhumane consideration of others.

Since you're so concerned about minimum wage earners, I ask you, how much, of your own money, have you given to people making minimum wage?

[Chance and Change]

How can anyone fight the minimum wage going up to $15 when all we see is over paid executives, and people becoming billionaires on a daily basis and the once millionaires are now with 100's of millions and 10's of billion in private wealth gathering. When $15 will barely pay the rent or mortgage and provide means to buy quality food and provide reliable transportation and allow people to have ability to buy some type of medical coverage via the ACA exchange.

Job no longer provide Pension or Medical as it once provided for the Baby Boomer Era. Now, Job that do provide insurance take a big chunk of employees pay as co-payment. When there was a time, when Boomer enjoyed the benefits of Union protections to have paid medical and company sponsored pension programs. but the Degree Riders destroyed the concept of Union protections, while they increased their pay tremendously and then outsourced the jobs so they could collect a hefty bonus and retain their positions as a do nothing, but get paid anyway roles of selling foreign goods to American people. These same degree riders did not omit to provide themselves pensions and medical coverage paid for by the company.

$15 is the least people should earn, then we will have less people relying on the public assistance after working 40 hrs, No one with one child can make it on $7. an hour, its difficult for a single person to have a decent life on $56 dollars a day when 24-27% tax is taken before they even get their check.

Yet, we have Executives making more than $500 an hour. and all they do is over-leverage companies, over expand, take on excessive debt, then plot and plan to sell the company in pieces or look to be taken over and have its divisions dismantled. Then they walk away with 10's of millions and in some cases, 100's of millions after the company no longer exist.

One can't even go to Burger place and get a burger, fries and a soda for less than $5.00 , a soda cost $1.75 and other things have escalated in cost 300-500% or more. Wake up people. Support the progress of the American Working people.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by Trucker7

While we're quoting great people from the past,

The difference being that one person signed the law that brought minimum wage into existence and the other didn't.

You're the one who put forth the "minimum wage = stepping stone" argument. So defend it.