If Minimum wage increases to 15 Dollars an hour, does that mean we all get a raise as well? (employment, unemployment)
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In companies with minimum wage workers and higher pay workers, they will just eliminate the minimum wage jobs and either automate, outsource, or add the duties to others. No company is going to double or even increase everyone's wages to maintain the appropriate pay difference for additional responsibility and skills just because the minimum wage doubled.
American corporations have long been outsourcing, mechanizing, laying off, and cutting wages and benefits of all workers, all while doubling the duties of those left on the job, AND raising prices. Raising the minimum wage won't alter that scenario one bit, nor will the verbal acrobatics with regard to economic theory ever change the fact that labor and capital have separate interests much of the time.
All the labor laws in this country were written to protect the worker, employers operate in that space or leave their business to those who can. Workers aren't the only people who need to compete. On a side note: If a corporation lowers the wages of their employees, through any of the myriad restructuring schemes that have enabled such a compensation reduction, should that be looked upon in the same negative way as a federal mandated raise?
Why is it that many of our countrymen see the entire compensation debate as a one sided thing? We live in a democratic system, meaning the people, not business, shall rule. For every business that ever went broke paying the minimum there are those who simultaneously prospered, capitalism works that way, winners and losers aren't terms relegated to labor exclusively. Taking less on the profit side has always been a useful tool in business competition. Let business fight it's own battles among themselves, we know only too well about their fights with labor..
Again: That's a system within which the only consideration is the profit generated. Basic decency and humane considerations are simply not part of the equation. It's a very callous perspective, one that does fly very well outside of the board room.
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Originally Posted by joe from dayton
and that is based on education (both formal and informal) and skill.
And luck. And convention. Regardless, it is still too narrow a perspective. We're more than just machines that make money. We're human beings.
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Originally Posted by joe from dayton
I am not fabricating or discarding anything, nor have you knocked anything down.
We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose.
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Originally Posted by joe from dayton
I understand that you think $15 an hour is the minumum wage someone needs to live with human dignity.
That's not what I said. Are you not reading what you're replying to?
it just means that all the professionals that were making that wage or close to it are now at the new minimum wage. employers aren't going to adjust salaries up because they adjust minimum wage.
Just shows what hard work and education gets you..
Lots of variables, obviously... predictions are hard to make without knowing firm government policies.
History speaks louder than theory, and by looking at previous minimum wages, and using the accepted 1996 price adjusted dollars, we can see those years where the average wage earner stood, relative to the overall economy. We used to call them "the good times"...
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by Curious Discussion
If it was so easy to automate and outsource the labor it would have been done by now. How are you going to outsource low level service jobs? If they make the manager at a fast food spot cook the hambergers they will no longer be doing managment work and will quit in frustration.
Most of the movement towards $15 an hour will be by populist voter initiatives which can't be stopped by governers or legislatures owned by corporate America.
Even at McDonalds automation has replaced workers. Go in there some time and watch, you will see that no one flips burgers, the grill does it automatically. Push a button and the drink fills to just the right amount by itself. The cash registers have a picture of the item to make it faster and easier than keying in an amount. A busy one has less than half the employees they did 20 years ago. Many low level jobs have already been outsourced, such as call centers, baggage handlers at airports, and dish washing at restaurants. By outsource I don't mean overseas, I mean companies that come in and do the work on a contract. Even with the markup the overall cost is less without paying for hiring/evaluation, unemployment, payroll taxes or benefits.
Even at McDonalds automation has replaced workers. Go in there some time and watch, you will see that no one flips burgers, the grill does it automatically. Push a button and the drink fills to just the right amount by itself. The cash registers have a picture of the item to make it faster and easier than keying in an amount. A busy one has less than half the employees they did 20 years ago. Many low level jobs have already been outsourced, such as call centers, baggage handlers at airports, and dish washing at restaurants. By outsource I don't mean overseas, I mean companies that come in and do the work on a contract. Even with the markup the overall cost is less without paying for hiring/evaluation, unemployment, payroll taxes or benefits.
The outsourcing company becomes the employer and they still have to put the people to work and they pay for the hiring costs, unemployment, payroll taxes and benefits. Nothing is really any different for the workers exact for the name of the company on the pay check.
If it was so easy to automate and outsource the labor it would have been done by now.
The obvious answer is that automating certain jobs wasn't cost effective when minimum wage was $7.50, but could start to be cost effective with a minimum wage at $15.
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