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The public sector isn't much of an option anymore when you now have so many people trying to get in and the dlfficulty in general of even getting an interview. There's a better chance of finding jimmy Hoffa than getting a federal job these days for most people. Even if they meet all the qualifications required. Now you need to know someone who can get you in
It's like starting your own business. Where are people going to MAGICALLY find the capital for materials, start up costs and getting started with the operations? You can't tell everyone just "get a federal job or start your own business". It's like successfully finding one eye golden unicorns In a forest and not a REALISTIC solution for the unemployed/underemployed in this country
A lot of people with the businesses inherited their businesses and learned the ropes of learning the business. They didn't start them up themselves. A lot of people got into federal jobs because someone hooked then up with federal jobs. Not because they just applied and got the job. Not everyone knows someone in the public sector who can get them hired
Many of the people who are very vocal about the problems of the American worker regularly vote for the political party that backs the interests of stockholders and business owners, over the interest of workers. If they would stop doing that, unions would be flourishing and workers would have the kind of protections and salaries they used to have in the 1960s.
For example, Indiana used to be a state with many high-paying manufacturing jobs. But in 2014 the citizens of the state voted to reduce the influence of labor unions by making Indiana a "right to work" state. It is a provable, well-known fact that "right to work" laws suppress wages. Indiana's governor Mike Pence is now running for vice president. He is one of the people who supported union busting in his state. It's also a well-established fact that from 1980 to 2015 wages for the top 1% of earners in our nation grew 138%, while wages for the bottom 90% of earners grew only 15% in the same time period. The circumstances that invited that to happen were begun when Ronald Reagan was president and continued in successive times when the GOP was in charge of Congress and many state legislatures. Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts | Economic Policy Institute
Citizens who vote for union-busting, CEO-loving candidates, have no right to complain about low wages for working class people. I'm not accusing the OP because I don't know how that person votes. But I know it is true of others who continually vote against their own economic interests. A good way to understand this is to read What's the Matter with Kansas by Thomas Frank, a book that explains how conservative politicians went about capturing the support of the working class and then set about destroying it. https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-.../dp/080507774X
Things have changed in our lifetimes. They are very unlikely to go back to the "good old days" of strong unions, great benefits, walk to school, Ozzie and Harriet, Father Knows Best. No one in government can reverse the course of globalization. It is what it is. The so-called service economy and information economy was/is a bust for the majority of working people. Fifteen dollars is it for most and a good deal less for many others. There is much "I got mine, *********" attitudes. You got yours when the rules were different. Getting yours now is infinitely more difficult because the truth is most people have to work for someone else who has built a company or had a good idea and ran with it. There are few Zuckerbergs and Gates and a whole lot of minimum wage folks who just need to work and survive. In our system there are winners and losers. It is that way in communist countries and socialistic nations. In capitalistic states, the winners and losers are much more identifiable.
Yes, plumbing and electrician is a frequent example of developing a skill set. There are many more but the thing is, the public education system does not support vocational training. High Schools have killed off "shop" which appeals to young guys but the college mantra continues. Many young people get no real guidance and have no clue what to do or how to get training. I must say that is one thing the military does pretty well but there is not a lot of demand civilian side for an infantryman or cannon cocker.
I do not believe every problem has a solution, at least not a reasonable one. I'd like to think this employment thing can be fixed but there is no indications that it will be or even can be.
Exactly.... which is another reason I can't figure out why folks think Unions are their bread and butter. A union basically forces a company to give more. Employees feel like it is owed to them. To give more, you have to get more. And since productivity isn't going to increase exponentially if a union is established then the only other option is to raise prices.
By raising prices, companies have to still manage to compete in the market. So they either get by on a shoestring budget or close up shop. A lot of labor unions also work on a "last hired, first fired" basis when they have to let people go. So if Bob has been there ten years and is a semi-marginal worker and Joe (who is an exceptional worker) comes along Joe will get the axe first by default. Therefore people are not kept and promoted based on merit, but instead on tenure. Also, if someone with seniority gets bumped from their position they could potentially take a less senior person's job.
Unions remind me of political groups. Promising you the world if you sign on the dotted line but standing by to collect their dues and doing just enough to keep you roped in without adding any real benefit that one could achieve on their own if they work hard enough.
If unions performed annual reviews on their members and made sure they were held to the same productivity standards as companies hold non-union employees to then maybe there could be some merit there. But at the end of the day they don't.
I've never been a union member (but I have friends who are) and I've seen just as much success (or more) than they have. The difference is merely that I find opportunities on my own and have to work to keep my position. I can't coast on their coat tails and keep my job. I am forced to earn it every day. I think having that mentality and not becoming stagnant is the key to climbing the ladder. I couldn't advance nearly as quickly as I do now in a union because I would have to bump senior members, and we all know that can't happen in a union.
Or they can squeak by on $90 million a year in profits instead of $100 million. Unions do not drive companies out of business. They take care of their members, which the employers sure won't do.
Lets look at major reasons for not enough good jobs to satisfy everyone.
The population of the USA has grown more than 50% since 1970.
In the 1970s, families started wanting more than they had in the past, and women started moving into the work place, increasing the number of working women by 41% in the 1970s, and that was only the start of the job growth by women.
Agriculture changed from manual, to mechanical so we went from 1/3rd working people being working in agriculture to only 3.4% of Americans working to produce food on farms. Jobs had to be produced, to employ the people that in last decades worked in agriculture.
The phone system changed. If we still ran the type of operator assisted phone system as at the end of WWII, there are not enough women working, to be able to fill the needs for telephone operators. Rarely do we become involved with operators today, with few jobs. And jobs had to be developed in other fields for what in the past would be working as phone operators. I am not playing down women, but the facts were that almost all telephone operators were women back in those days.
There has been a tremendous growth of Illegal Residents sneaking over our borders, and those people need jobs. These illegal residents are taking a lot of jobs, that would be available to average Americans if there was not such a huge influx of illegal residents. This has been a major factor, and not only in the low end employment picture.
What it all comes down to, is the sheer number of people that have entered the work force is in the many millions, and beyond the ability of private industry to come up with good jobs for everyone.
But the federal government is adding jobs like crazy. Now there are more federal employees, than employed in manufacturing.
A lot of people on these threads, blame the corporations for the problems. They blame them as there are not enough great jobs for everyone. They blame them, because the wages have not grown like crazy which only happens when there is a shortage of potential workers, and companies can increase their prices which leaves more money for higher wages.
What young workers are seeing happen in the work place, is similar to the ones that entered the work force back in the 50s, and 60s. The workers then, did not expect to get to top earnings for a few years, and worked their way up. Today the young people, want to be in the high earning category from day 1 and it is not happening like they expected it would. It is happening more like it was in the 50s, through 70s again. The new normal is becoming the old normal all over again.
What is happening, is the young new work force, is going to have to slow down on their expectations, and grow into the work world as their grandparents, did. It is all due, to the workforce growing by huge numbers, that exceeds the ability of private industry to provide enough jobs people want, at the wages and benefits they want. We are back in normal work conditions again.
Things have changed in our lifetimes. They are very unlikely to go back to the "good old days" of strong unions, great benefits, walk to school, Ozzie and Harriet, Father Knows Best. No one in government can reverse the course of globalization. It is what it is. The so-called service economy and information economy was/is a bust for the majority of working people. Fifteen dollars is it for most and a good deal less for many others. There is much "I got mine, *********" attitudes. You got yours when the rules were different. Getting yours now is infinitely more difficult because the truth is most people have to work for someone else who has built a company or had a good idea and ran with it. There are few Zuckerbergs and Gates and a whole lot of minimum wage folks who just need to work and survive. In our system there are winners and losers. It is that way in communist countries and socialistic nations. In capitalistic states, the winners and losers are much more identifiable.
Yes, plumbing and electrician is a frequent example of developing a skill set. There are many more but the thing is, the public education system does not support vocational training. High Schools have killed off "shop" which appeals to young guys but the college mantra continues. Many young people get no real guidance and have no clue what to do or how to get training. I must say that is one thing the military does pretty well but there is not a lot of demand civilian side for an infantryman or cannon cocker.
I do not believe every problem has a solution, at least not a reasonable one. I'd like to think this employment thing can be fixed but there is no indications that it will be or even can be.
The reason schools have killed off shop is due to budgetary constraints.
The modern employee is more productive than ever, and corporations are making record profits. What did the rank and file worker get for not having unions? They didn't get more money, wages have been flat in real dollars for 30+ years. They didn't get more job security. The employees produce more, so how have they benefited from this increased productivity?
They've kept their jobs in spite of a global economy where companies could easily close up shop and farm out their work overseas. That's the alternative. My wages aren't flat and never have been. But, I don't try to stick with one job in one company for 30+ years either. I follow the money. That's the difference today. If you want success you have to go find it. You can't stagnate and expect that it be given to you because of tenure. Needs change and technology changes very frequently. It's a different world now. To stay at the top you have to stay on your toes. Companies didn't change the way the world works, so blaming it on them does no good. We are responsible for ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by East of the River
Yeah that sums it up. Really it's both do your best in life but also you do need to complain when you see a problem in the system.
I don't disagree that there are some companies out to take advantage of any situation they can. I do blame people for just complaining and taking no action on their own. We don't need to pay a group of people to "protect" us. We need to get off our butts and do something else as uncomfortable as that may be. If calling the company to task doesn't work, move on to something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
Or they can squeak by on $90 million a year in profits instead of $100 million. Unions do not drive companies out of business. They take care of their members, which the employers sure won't do.
My employer takes care of me very well. I WANT them to make profit. When they make profit I keep my job. In turn, there is more money available in the pool to give raises, promotions, and to increase benefits. When someone comes in to tell them they HAVE to pay more they'd likely do the bare minimum as required by the union. A large local company here went through a union vote a few years back. The company couldn't stop it, but did warn them that if a union got voted in the doors would close within the year and the factory would move the work to one of their other buildings in another state. The company takes very good care of their employees and pays a more than fair wage in our area. There's nothing wrong with that. If the company sees a union as a threat to their business model, some will close up shop and go somewhere else.
Yes, plumbing and electrician is a frequent example of developing a skill set. There are many more but the thing is, the public education system does not support vocational training. High Schools have killed off "shop" which appeals to young guys but the college mantra continues.
Not true in my area.
We have great vocational schools in the county.
We have shop in the high school.
We also make sure everyone - including gals - has at least 6 weeks of 'shop' in the Family and Consumer Sciences semesters. Everyone - even the guys - are required to take 6 weeks of sewing.
My employer takes care of me very well. I WANT them to make profit. When they make profit I keep my job. In turn, there is more money available in the pool to give raises, promotions, and to increase benefits. When someone comes in to tell them they HAVE to pay more they'd likely do the bare minimum as required by the union. A large local company here went through a union vote a few years back. The company couldn't stop it, but did warn them that if a union got voted in the doors would close within the year and the factory would move the work to one of their other buildings in another state. The company takes very good care of their employees and pays a more than fair wage in our area. There's nothing wrong with that. If the company sees a union as a threat to their business model, some will close up shop and go somewhere else.
The trouble is alot of companies during the last decade (and longer) took proactive steps to increase their profits by hurting their workers. So many of them did it that while some can escape to better employment not all can.
I worker for a Fortune 100 company for awhile where the joke was "Yes our department is very efficient and profitable but your not pulling your weight" or more concisely "together we are great but you suck" The funny thing was it was a very small department (20 people mostly friends) so we all talked to each other and realized despite our division being more profitable then 90% of the company we were getting 1.5% raises each year, it turns out our immediate bosses were getting screwed too, but above them the VP of our division and the directors under him were making huge bonuses (one bought a lake house for cash with a single year bonus) The thing is this is not an uncommon story in large business today. I went back to working for small.medium size business because of crap like that.
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