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16-20 million, wow! That would make it the biggest city in Europe, even if it's partially in Europe, and a sure rival for London. Had no idea it was that big!
Istanbul is a massive city. It's technically the 2nd largest city *proper* in the world after Shanghai, and very possible #1 if you take into account the new estimates at the high end. Istanbul also occupies a very large area...twice as big as Shanghai. Most people don't live in the country areas, but if you can imagine...a ton of room to expand. They are actually very possibly building a THIRD international airport that is supposed to be 3-5 times larger Ataturk Intl...apparently
Technically speaking, it's the largest city in Europe. However, about 4.5 to 5 million people in Istanbul live on the Asian side, meaning officially, the European population of Istanbul is around 8.5-9 million people. That means it's larger than London (and NYC by the way) without even taking into account the Asian side. It's very possible with the new estimates that it's larger than Moscow on the European side alone.
Last edited by marothisu; 01-20-2013 at 11:53 PM..
Not to mention too, the last "official" population of istanbul was around 13.5 million, but there's unofficial estimates of between 16 and 20 million now. So it's possible the areas are even denser now. Istanbul is a lot denser than people think. The total area of Istanbul is huge, but most of the people are centered very packed together like some of the more dense cities in China, Philippines, etc. Very comparable
I read on Istanbul's Wikipedia that's one of the 5 fastest growing cities in the world-- it's absolutely insane where it's population is headed.
Dear sweet petunias! That place is ripe to become a mega-monster. It already became a megacity when it crossed 10 million people in it's area and now it's on it's way to becoming a hypercity too (20 million +). It'll be joining only 11 other cities in that super exclusive club.
Also to the person that recommended Kolkata (Calcutta), ohhh yeahhhhh that one is easily in. It's by FAR and away the most overwhelming megacity I've ever been to in terms of density & congestion. On a whole different level, makes Mumbai feel like freakin' Charlotte in comparison.
By the way memph, those were great snapshots of Shenzhen-- can you believe in 1982 it had a population of only like 340,000 people? Unbelievable! That has to have been the worlds fastest grower, it became a megacity in only 30 years. In 1982 it was the size of College Station, TX (well slightly larger).
I read on Istanbul's Wikipedia that's one of the 5 fastest growing cities in the world-- it's absolutely insane where it's population is headed.
Dear sweet petunias! That place is ripe to become a mega-monster. It already became a megacity when it crossed 10 million people in it's area and now it's on it's way to becoming a hypercity too (20 million +).
Yeah. And it's possibly already at a "hypercity" too. If it's not, it'll become one pretty soon. It'll be interesting to see if Istanbul gets the 2020 Olympics (it's in the top 3 with Madrid and Tokyo) how big the city will be by then.
Here's food for thought. In 1980, its population was around 2.8 million. In 1985, just 5 years later, its population was almost 5.5 million. It nearly doubled its population in just five years. Then by 2000, it was almost 11 million, doubling its population from there in 15 years. It's pretty insane.
The city lately has been growing at 10% every 5 years. That means by 2020 it will "officially" be over 16 million if it's not already, and by 2050, at that rate it will be around 30 million people.
There has been an influx of people moving there from other rural Turkish cities, but also from Russia, Bulgaria, Iran, Germany, Iraq (i.e. Kurdistan), etc so who knows. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new influx of Syrian immigrants there as well escaping what's going on now.
Istanbul is much more dense than the densest parts of Seoul. The densest district of Seoul, Yangcheon-gu, is at 72,210 /sq mi. If that was in Istanbul, it would be 7th densest district. That means there are 2,828,812 living in Istanbul in denser parts than the densest part of Seoul. This is larger than the current population of the entire city of Chicago. The 7th densest district of Istanbul is just 1000 people less per square mile than the Seoul district (it has around 250,000 people living in that area in Istanbul). The 2nd densest district of Seoul would register as 10th if it were Istanbul (Total population of 3.8 million more people in Istanbul.
For Barcelona, the densest district, Eixample, is at 91,130 people per square mile. That would make it the 4th densest district of Istanbul. That means there are 1,392,588 people living in denser parts in Istanbul than the densest part of Barcelona. Barcelona's entire population is 1,621,537.. Barcelona's entire density is around 44,000 per square mile. Double Barcelona's density and then a little bit more and you would have the equivalent of the densest parts of Istanbul for the entire city of Barcelona.
Not to mention too, the last "official" population of istanbul was around 13.5 million, but there's unofficial estimates of between 16 and 20 million now. So it's possible the areas are even denser now. Istanbul is a lot denser than people think. The total area of Istanbul is huge, but most of the people are centered very packed together like some of the more dense cities in China, Philippines, etc. Very comparable
It depends on how you measure things though.
Seoul's density distribution is probably quite different from Istanbul's. Istanbul seems to have the densest districts all next to each other and the densities within the districts are relatively uniform. Is that correct?
Meanwhile, Seoul has its densest districts scattered all over the place even in the suburbs, and the density varies a lot within a district with large highrise complexes mixed in with lower density areas. If you look at the "Dongs" as opposed to the "Gus", so a slightly smaller unit, you actually have 3.5 million people in Seoul living in Dongs that are denser than the densest Gu (72,210 ppsm), compared to 2.8 million for Istanbul districts.
That's not entirely fair though, because if you broke up Istanbul's districts into smaller units, it would have more people at high densities too, although the effect would probably not be as great as for Seoul since Istanbul's districts seem to be mostly relatively uniform throughout in density (compared to Seoul at least). Also, Seoul's suburbs, which hold an extra 15 million people probably have a lot of very high density too. I was only able to find comparable data for one suburb (Anyang), and it seemed to have a similar density as Seoul. However, the fact that Istanbul's density is all next to each other instead of scattered all over should count for something too.
As for Barcelona, it doesn't have as much density in net numbers, but in terms of the density of the average neighbourhood in Barcelona, it seems pretty similar. And again, a lot of Barcelona's districts include very dense neighbourhoods and very low density areas with industry or mountainsides.
The total population for Barcelones Province, which includes Barcelona and 4 inner suburbs is 2,271,998. That's already less than Istanbul's 4 densest districts but Barcelona only ever stood a chance in terms of % of population above x density. So the population living in Barris (neighbourhoods, smaller than districts with around 25,000 people) above various density thresholds... That's what's impressive about Barcelona's density, how much it has for it's relatively modest size. Not many cities can claim to have 50% of their population in neighbourhoods above 85,000 ppsm. The outer suburbs and satellite cities that make up its metropolitan area aren't much less dense, maybe comparable to Brooklyn, but I was only able to find data at the neighbourhood level for Terassa, Sant Feliu and San Bois.
Interesting, anyways, Istanbul is definitely impressive if only developing world megacities and maybe HK/Barcelona/Seoul (depending on measurement) can rival it in terms of density. Although I think Turkey is still technically considered a developing country, Istanbul is still more like Spain, South Korea or Hong Kong than Delhi, Dhaka, Kolkata or Karachi.
Btw in terms of net growth, Delhi, Dhaka, Karachi, Mumbai, Jakarta, Shanghai and Beijing are all supposedly adding 5 million people or more per decade to their metro areas. At that rate, they'll be around 50 million people in 2050, although I doubt they will be sustaining that kind of growth for so long (especially Shanghai/Beijing since China's population growth has slowed down).
Seoul's density distribution is probably quite different from Istanbul's. Istanbul seems to have the densest districts all next to each other and the densities within the districts are relatively uniform. Is that correct?
IMO it's all a moot point. We're talking about density. The very definition of density is how closely packed together people are. So of course. Istanbul is completely packed and pretty much any neighborhood you go to will be. Seoul might very well be dense in the "suburbs" too, but it all depends on how people have chosen to live and what the overall area is. Area wise, Istanbul is literally just under 9 times larger than Seoul.
This is a good idea of the population distribution of Istanbul (some populated areas to the west are cut out):
The only reason the overall density of the city is lower in statistics is because the entire district of Istanbul is considered the city pretty much. Therefore, outside of town you have a lot of open land and small towns that are technically part of the city. In most countries of the world, these aren't counted as part of the city. For some reason, Turkey does. Once you get out of the "city" there aren't that many places that are real populated (a few areas between 150,000 and 300,000). It greatly skews the numbers.
Most of Istanbul's "official" 13 million people live within an area smaller than the area of Seoul.
Interesting, anyways, Istanbul is definitely impressive if only developing world megacities and maybe HK/Barcelona/Seoul (depending on measurement) can rival it in terms of density. Although I think Turkey is still technically considered a developing country, Istanbul is still more like Spain, South Korea or Hong Kong than Delhi, Dhaka, Kolkata or Karachi.
Yep, it's still a developing country and will be for awhile. It is more like those countries for sure. More like Spain, parts of Italy, parts of Greece, etc. Look at the pics from the page before. It is a lot like some Italian coastal cities (but the hills/mountains there aren't as big as the Italian ones).
Population above 100,000 ppsm: 2,236,461
Most of these districts look pretty slum-like, it's mostly single storey so the buildings must be quite crowded to achieve those kinds of densities.
Dhaka's densest district is Kotwali: Dhaka Kotwali Thana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
At least, maybe... the data is 20 years old, Dhaka population has about doubled since and wikipedia doesn't have data for 7 districts. Sutrapur and Lalbagh were also above 100,000 ppsm in 1991.
Cairo doesn't seem to have much in the way of a census to keep tract of the population of the city.
Also something to keep in mind when doing this is the amount of unlivable space in a city i.e. monuments, religious institutions, college campuses (outside of dorm stuff), stadiums, arenas, etc
With Istanbul is the number of places where people don't actually live. For example, you have Topkapi Palace, which is literally 50% larger than the entire Vatican City (Topkapi is 0.25 sq miles in size). You have the Blue Mosque next to that, Aya Sofya. Then near there you have things like the Grand Bazaar, one of the largest shopping centers in the entire world and the spice bazaar right there too. Then there's the new mosque near there which is big, as well as Suleymaniye Mosque which is the largest in the city. There are over 3000 mosques in the city which people do not live at and a lot of other stuff there too (i.e. Rumeli Fortress). All of these things do add up. Not to mention a bunch of soccer and basketball stadiums and arenas.
Also with Istanbul, some of the large universities have very large campuses. For example, Istanbul Tech has a campus area of 1 square mile which is basically right next to one of the densest neighborhoods ..it's actually between two (it technically doesn't belong to either fully. Parts in one, parts in another)
There's also not one, but two airports in the city, with a third on the way opening in 2016 that will be larger than the main one. Seoul has one too of course in the city, but it's not the main one people fly into. The main one is on an island in Incheon. It's not a huge airport but it does get traffic. I'm not sure about Seoul with all this stuff though. Someone would have to educate me.
Seoul is of course, really dense too. IMO it's pretty similar to Istanbul, but the unlivable space thing. I do know Seoul has some big parks inside the city itself. I don't know which districts they belong to..which districts the numbers are being skewed for less. With Istanbul it's straight up city for a long time with tons of mosques, bazaars, stadiums, arenas, colleges etc mixed in. You have to go outside of the city to find the parks, but Turkey is a huge country so it's not that hard to find that. The city itself is an urban jungle big time. Luckily, it's on the Marmara Sea and the Bosphorus Strait, and to the north...the Black Sea.
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That would make it the biggest city in Europe, even if it's partially in Europe, and a sure rival for London. Had no idea it was that big!
