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I see "since" used for "sense" a lot on these forums, but I wonder if it's because in some parts of the country, people say a short e just like a short i, and they think the words are spelled the same way because they think they are pronounced the same way.
The easiest example is people who say "pin" and "pen" the same way. I can hear it on anchorpeople on TV all the time, even though I'm in the NY metro area--they must have come from the south or midwest originally, and they say "More to come on the Tin O'clock news". Even my automatic voice on my work phone says, "Inter your passcode".
I want to say "OPEN YOUR MOUTH!"
What you are hearing is the "pin/pen merger", and it is regional.
"In the South, the words pin and pen are homophones. So are tin/ten, kin/ken, din/den, bin/Ben, windy/Wendy, and sinned/send. Down South, all have the same vowel sound."
"According to linguistic experts (the aforementioned phonologists), the Pin/Pen Merger is neither ignorance nor carelessness. It is a normal, rule-governed part of Southern dialect.
The Pin/Pen Merger, the experts point out, occurs only when the vowel comes before the letter n. The rule doesn’t apply when the vowel comes before a different letter."
"Aspect number one is how Southerners make themselves clear when a homophone is used.
Most of the time, context alone is sufficient.
'Floyd, don’t you try to pin the blame on me!'
'Floyd, this pen of yours won’t write!'
But, when context fails, we still have a solution.
'Floyd, hand me that stick pin.'
'Floyd, hand me that ink pen.'
The author, who is from the south, notes that saying pen like pin is ingrained that he cannot say pen with the short e sound. Neither can I. When I try, it sounds forced and strained. Born and reared in the South am I!
I didn't yet have time to look at the linked page above, but I will. I promise!
Does Mr. Write discuss the Southern sound-alikes, "imported" and "important"?
Every person whom I have ever known from south of the Mason Dixon line pronounces those two words identically, and that can be very confusing.
I didn't yet have time to look at the linked page above, but I will. I promise!
Does Mr. Write discuss the Southern sound-alikes, "imported" and "important"?
Every person whom I have ever known from south of the Mason Dixon line pronounces those two words identically, and that can be very confusing.
I just looked at the pin/pen issue. However, I do not say imported and important the same way and I cannot think of ever having heard it.
A lady on facebook has posted about available job openings and asked people to fill out forms online. Instead of doing this, people are throwing questions out like, "Where is this at?" "How come u need know my adress?" and this one, "Whats pay for most of the possitions."
I wonder why these folks are having trouble finding employment. It's so baffling, isn't it?
Oh yes, and while we're at it we'll teach the Chinese people to pronounce their Rs. ...no more chicken flied lice jokes?
My daughter moved to Beijing last month. She went to school in China (Chengdu) three years ago. She merrily texted me that she knew she was back in China when she walked into a Starbucks and was greeted with, "Herro, prease!"
She has degrees in Mandarin and Linguistics so she can--and she WILL if you let her--explain exactly why Chinese people pronounce their Ls and Rs the way they do. As well as why my Indian coworkers go on wacation and my Spanish-speaking coworkers drive behigles. And her frustration with my inability to properly make the sound at the beginning of the word that is shown in pinyin as an X. It's sort of a "sh" at the back of the mouth with the teeth further apart. I'm workin' on it.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 11-06-2014 at 01:43 PM..
A lady on facebook has posted about available job openings and asked people to fill out forms online. Instead of doing this, people are throwing questions out like, "Where is this at?" "How come u need know my adress?" and this one, "Whats pay for most of the possitions."
I wonder why these folks are having trouble finding employment. It's so baffling, isn't it?
It is awful, and it's sad. I mean, we have a party on this thread making fun of these people, and I'm right at the front of the line, but in reality, literacy in this country has really gone downhill.
I remember years ago reading some interviews with Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten and a couple of the other Manson followers, and I was struck by how intelligent and well-spoken they were. These were people around 20 years old in the late 60s, early 70s, and murderers to boot, but their vocabularies pretty well-rounded and they expressed themselves well. I don't think many of the people that age today could be that articulate. There has definitely been a decline.
However, I do not say imported and important the same way and I cannot think of ever having heard it.
I wish that I could say that, but--unfortunately--I have had some very confusing conversations with southern folks who pronounced "imported" and "important" identically.
"In the South, the words pin and pen are homophones. So are tin/ten, kin/ken, din/den, bin/Ben, windy/Wendy, and sinned/send. Down South, all have the same vowel sound."
"According to linguistic experts (the aforementioned phonologists), the Pin/Pen Merger is neither ignorance nor carelessness. It is a normal, rule-governed part of Southern dialect.
The Pin/Pen Merger, the experts point out, occurs only when the vowel comes before the letter n. The rule doesn’t apply when the vowel comes before a different letter."
"Aspect number one is how Southerners make themselves clear when a homophone is used.
Most of the time, context alone is sufficient.
'Floyd, don’t you try to pin the blame on me!'
'Floyd, this pen of yours won’t write!'
But, when context fails, we still have a solution.
'Floyd, hand me that stick pin.'
'Floyd, hand me that ink pen.'
The author, who is from the south, notes that saying pen like pin is ingrained that he cannot say pen with the short e sound. Neither can I. When I try, it sounds forced and strained. Born and reared in the South am I!
I had this conversation on another forum, and a Southern woman said, "I can't make my mouth work that way!"
We say some funny things when we tawk in New Jersey, too.
I wish that I could say that, but--unfortunately--I have had some very confusing conversations with southern folks who pronounced "imported" and "important" identically.
I have not heard that, but I don't know a lot of Southerners. Another set that's often confused is conscious and conscience, but I don't think that is regional.
It is awful, and it's sad. I mean, we have a party on this thread making fun of these people, and I'm right at the front of the line, but in reality, literacy in this country has really gone downhill.
I remember years ago reading some interviews with Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten and a couple of the other Manson followers, and I was struck by how intelligent and well-spoken they were. These were people around 20 years old in the late 60s, early 70s, and murderers to boot, but their vocabularies pretty well-rounded and they expressed themselves well. I don't think many of the people that age today could be that articulate. There has definitely been a decline.
You are correct, but if you look at...let's say...census records from the 19th Century, or from the early 20th Century, you will likely see the same things that I did when doing some genealogical research, namely rampant misspellings of occupations, street names, and fairly common names for people.
I think that the "take-away" from this conundrum is that there have always been people who were less literate, but--thanks to the internet--they are more obvious nowadays than they were previously.
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When I try, it sounds forced and strained. Born and reared in the South am I!
