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But he would win here in a heartbeat, hence the need to go at it alone and lose the dead weight. I would also throw in that Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum would never be elected dog catcher in either Washington, Oregon, or Northern California. And just how would you guys have the military means in which to pro yourselves.Im telling you all you have to do is look at what is going on in Quebec.
Spain and Greece has problems of tax evasion and corruption. What do you think is going on in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Canada...basically, rapid growth and a much higher standard of living than in the USSA.
Your link is no good.Kuwait,the U.A.E. also have a higher standard of living.As far as Scandinavia goes ,Africa is growing faster.Even in Canada,cracks are showing
No, they just can't sustain tax fraud.
Tax Fraud is a result for people who have no respect of the government.
Germany still has a much larger government than the US. Brazil followed the American model for years and was a mug pit, they started acting more like Scandinavia and now they're doing well for themselves, despite the global shut-down.
Yes but Germany is the strongest nation in the E.U. by every measure.The European news is constantly concerned about Germany leaving the E.U.Mai
No, that was twenty years ago and most people in the PNW hate those freaks. They came here because of the Aryan Nations, who were just one group, and most of them left. They are outnumbered by socialists and anarchists at least five to one.
The South has there issues but it really not as black and white(figurtively speaking)as it may seem in regards to race.You said earlier that TN and Gerogia are more aligned.Thats so not true.If anything it would be GA ,Northern Florida,and N.C.
Just look at this map showing states witth the most hate crimes.Notiice how the South overall has less incidents of hate crime by far http://www.esquire.com/features/hate-crime-0608
In the name of defending the world from the evils of the Soviet Union, the government of the USSA propped up dictators far worse than anything in the USSR...Pinochet, Rafael Trujillo, the Contras, and even the Taliban were aided in the war to safe "the free world".
The USSA outlasted the USSR because they had more money and realized manipulating people is a better way of keeping them in line than oppressing them.
In every one of those that you mentioned those people were propped well bEFORE the attrocities were committed.You cannot tell me differently because you could never prove otherwise. We can have a dicussion but are you really trying to tell me that the USSR that routinely captured its own citizens and sent them to the Gulag.The same USSR that all of the developed world saw as the enemy.Including Scandinavia,Canada etc.... all worked together to undermine then with there support of NATO and the U.S. was less the problem than the U.S.?
Not to mention you still never answered as I mentioned how the European Colonial powers before have blood on there hands also.
Its a fact?Really?How so?What is more fairer than you having more authority in your own destiny?
For me it is much more fair system where such fundamental things as education and healthcare are universal and completely free, and a system where all people have a home.
Anyway, as I said, there is not the perfect system, and I prefer a system like the Scandinavian, mixing elements from capitalism and socialism, that a purely capitalist or socialist.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
We are looking from the angles in which we identify with.I dont see the problems in Spain as being the result of Conservative policies.I see it as a result of letting labor unions,unreasonable and unsustainable polcies regarding things like entitlements and pensions as being the cause of why conservative policies now are nescessary to prevent collapse.
Yes, surely we see the situation from the angle at which we indentify with.
I live in Spain and I've been a conservative voter until the recent elections that I've seen that their cuts and austerity policies are destroying the country and wiping out the middle class and benefiting only the wealthy, that's why my view is so critical.
The Conservatives in Spain have proven to be a gang of incompetent corrupt, during the election campaign they lied saying they would not raise taxes, they would not cut on health or education or more essential aids. Once they have come to power have been the first thing they have done, while increased aid to the Catholic Church, to bullfights and to continue maintaining property speculation. For me, these policies are not necessary, and much less the best for the country.
IMHO The current situation in Spain is the fault of the eight years of Aznar's conservative government, which implemented fully capitalist policies that created the real estate and banking bubble.
The government in Spain had money to maintain pension and welfare system, but have had to spend everything to bail out the banks.
It is also because of financial speculation, the rating agencies and the risk premium. Until a couple of years, Spain was one of the European countries with less debt, most of Spanish debt is private banks. Until rating agencies decided to lower the rating to Spain, driving up public debt, and the little money remaining, the government has to spend it rescuing banks. I see nothing more capitalist and conservative than that.
Regions with higher debt and deeper crisis are the ones ruled by conservatives during years.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
Of course the population is mad.They have been living generations like this and now these massive changes.It may or may not make sense but people dont accept change well ,even if it is whats best..
This is true in the U.S. as we accept or fight things like Obamacare
Not exactly true. There are not generations living like this. Democracy in Spain does not have more than 30 years. Until the eighties in Spain was unimaginable a system like this, after 40 years of dictatorship and decades of struggle to achieve these rights, so people will fight to keep it.
In Spain people will fight to keep the system, and the Spanish are not known for being peaceful, if they have to use violence against the Conservatives are going to do, in fact, has already begun, as the occupation of land by laborers.
What is clear is that if one day the United States break apart and Cascadia uses a socialist system and the South a capitalistic one, will be years until we see which one has worked better.
Last edited by chascarrillo; 09-09-2012 at 06:00 AM..
For me it is much more fair system where such fundamental things as education and healthcare are universal and completely free, and a system where all people have a home.
Anyway, as I said, there is not the perfect system, and I prefer a system like the Scandinavian, mixing elements from capitalism and socialism, that a purely capitalist or socialist.
Yes, surely we see the situation from the angle at which we indentify with.
I live in Spain and I've been a conservative voter until the recent elections that I've seen that their cuts and austerity policies are destroying the country and wiping out the middle class and benefiting only the wealthy, that's why my view is so critical.
The Conservatives in Spain have proven to be a gang of incompetent corrupt, during the election campaign they lied saying they would not raise taxes, they would not cut on health or education or more essential aids. Once they have come to power have been the first thing they have done, while increased aid to the Catholic Church, to bullfights and to continue maintaining property speculation. For me, these policies are not necessary, and much less the best for the country.
IMHO The current situation in Spain is the fault of the eight years of Aznar's conservative government, which implemented fully capitalist policies that created the real estate and banking bubble.
The government in Spain had money to maintain pension and welfare system, but have had to spend everything to bail out the banks.
It is also because of financial speculation, the rating agencies and the risk premium. Until a couple of years, Spain was one of the European countries with less debt, most of Spanish debt is private banks. Until rating agencies decided to lower the rating to Spain, driving up public debt, and the little money remaining, the government has to spend it rescuing banks. I see nothing more capitalist and conservative than that.
Regions with higher debt and deeper crisis are the ones ruled by conservatives during years.
Not exactly true. There are not generations living like this. Democracy in Spain does not have more than 30 years. Until the eighties in Spain was unimaginable a system like this, after 40 years of dictatorship and decades of struggle to achieve these rights, so people will fight to keep it.
In Spain people will fight to keep the system, and the Spanish are not known for being peaceful, if they have to use violence against the Conservatives are going to do, in fact, has already begun, as the occupation of land by laborers.
What is clear is that if one day the United States break apart and Cascadia uses a socialist system and the South a capitalistic one, will be years until we see which one has worked better.
In regards o education I agree totally.However I dont think thats necessarily the fault of a capitalist economy.Same withhealthcare
I also agree that a mixing of the two is the best way to go.That is nothing new.The U.S. we do have that.Programs like Medicare,Medicade,Social Secuity and even the G.I, Bill are excellent examples.
Its just that in either case each leans more in one direction versus the other.The question is how far should one go in either direction?
Spain is a wonderful country and I hope that things do not deteriorate further.They have come a long way for it to come crumbeling down.
About 25% if all Texans want secession. Like I said, ending the Empire is unpopular now with Imperial subjects, just as Zionism was unpopular with Jews in the 1890s. Things changed and the opinions changed.
That link said half of republican want secession, but as said this doesn't include democrats, and it of course only include those republican that happen to vote that stupid thing, and exclude people who aren't into politics who don't vote.
If want to make dare we can open a thread in the Texas forums hell we open a thread in Washington forums
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The area of Tennessee and Georgia share the same history, culture and demographics, hence they are a nation. Separate, they are still the same. There is no way anyone with a brain can sit there and tell me the difference between Washington State and Tennessee is no greater than the difference between Tennessee and South Carolina.
Georgia has Spanish, and English colonial history that Tennessee don't, There is not a metro in Tennessee the size of metro Atlanta, half the state of Georgia pop stay in the Atlanta area, TN pop as whole is 6.3 mill Atlanta CSA is 5.7 mil alone. Then with out GA out side of Atlanta has over 4 mil that more than Oregon. SC is a exception partly to size, because beside Texas the more populated states of the south are the South Atlantic.
SC, GA and TN They all actually do partly share Mountain culture, at least historically anyways. But as I said GA and SC, have strong English colonial coastal heritage, And the Piedmont culture is not in TN. TN also has Mississippi delta culture which is not in GA and SC. How about this GA and SC are as different from TN as North Cali is from the Northwest.
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So you admit then that my North West/Mid Atlantic culture is different than Southern Culture? It is. I am a Cascadian, they are Dixian. We have very little in common and I don't care for their culture and they have plenty to say about us in Seattle. Best thing for us all is to pursue our own destinies as free people, no longer forced to share the same Federal government.
I have lived most of life in the south and I lived and been to many southern states. Never heard the term "Dixian" in my life. Also "Dixie" has negative meaning to some southerns, Rember I'm black so that "Dixie" thing is getting annoying. "Dixie" also usually refer to thing country or the old south culturally. But showing more and more of you don't know jack swat about the south.
I said "Ethnocentric refer to culture as long as you view them as a different culture and bash that culture, your ethnocentric." I also said over and over there's regional difference but not enough for being different country. You have a habit of dishing straw mans.
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Yes, which is why the "right to work states" are in the conservative south...EVERY STINKING SOUTHERN STATE IS A ANTIP-UNION "RIGHT TO WORK (for less) STATE" So, where were the "liberals" and the "moderates" there? All out taking a pee? If there was any progressive movement worth anything in the South at least ONE of those states would have avoided right to work.
There you go with the ethnocentric prejudice hate again.
Anyways southern states have lower taxes so the price of living is generally cheaper so low pay check go much further. But lets look a sunbelt vs rust belt, the sunbelt is growing the rest belt is declining. I'm for worker rights but ideas like teacher unions are stupid. A teacher is doing a civic job for the community, I don't believe teachers should be cheated but children education is most important above thing.
Do understand that majority wins? as I said if half is conservative and the other half liberals and moderates, Conservative ideals are going win most of the time. The large liberals and moderate pop are still here just lose a lot unfortunately. Because barely losing is still losing.
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In other words, he was a right-wing hack who wouldn't stand his ground against the GOP. Nice work, Southern chump! Like I said, trust no one to the right of Kucinich or Ralph Nader
No he's a center- left liberal that veto 2 worst right wing already, the politics of it all if didn't sign that bill he's taking risk of losing the 96 election. Than a real right wing nut "Bob" would of went in and sign a bill we would had hated 10x more.
I don't think socialism is inherently bad. This is how I see it. Denmark, Sweden, and Norway have socialist policies. However, it also has kept its capitalism. With places like Cuba, no one was allowed to start businesses for a long time.
I think it much more likely that the two major politcal partiers will break apart. the democrats into cetral;ist of the Clinton faction and then liberal oabma people. republican in to the conservative3 and centralist .Its likely to happen tot eh demcrats first just because of teh rifff that is happenig with the change of the committeee last election.
I think it much more likely that the two major politcal partiers will break apart. the democrats into cetral;ist of the Clinton faction and then liberal oabma people. republican in to the conservative3 and centralist .Its likely to happen tot eh demcrats first just because of teh rifff that is happenig with the change of the committeee last election.
I am sorry, but I have to speak up on the bolded part. Obama is honestly just left of center, there are politicians who get much more liberal than him (historically thinking, Huey Long from back in the 20's or 30's wanted to cap personal wealth at $500,000, and actually did a 15 and a half hour long filibuster for his beliefs
I am tired of people thinking that Obama is "far to the left" or "Socialist", even his healthcare act is not socialist, it is pretty much a fine for not purchasing health care (similar to automobile insurance policies in the majority of the states.) If he were a socialist, we would have come out with a system more similar to that of the UK (which I would prefer, but that is another topic for another time.) Anyways, with my rant over I just want to set the tables straight.
Oh, and for the actual topic of the thread, the U.S. breaking up any time in the near future is highly unlikely, with how interdependent nations currently are on one another, nations such as China or Japan who have political interest on the US remaining a nation (The US army is also Japans army, and we owe the Chinese government large sums of money, that would most likely go into default if the US were to break up). The few that want to break up the US are by far a MINORITY, and even in the most liberal or conservative region, is likely that nobody would be elected to government with views like that (I know Rick Perry was, but I believe that him claiming Texan succession was more of a complaint of the then slumping economy slowing down the massive growth that Texas has been experiencing.)
Could the USA break apart? Well, this is the way I see it. It has almost happened before. It was the Civil War. Texas at one time was its own nation. California and alot of the Southwest use to be Mexico. It could very well happen again. It could happen because it has happened before. The possibility is there. However, how will it happen if it does occur? Will it be peaceful like when Czechoslovakia broke up, or will it be violent such as when Yugoslavia broke up?
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