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Old 12-30-2013, 11:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sargentodiaz View Post
Detroit

Havana looks a lot like that, except the Detroit is a city abandoned by its largest industry. Havana is the center of government and commerce.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I am not sympathetic to the Castro regime. However, I don't think this is the work of socialism. Sweden has socialism. Stockholm looks quite nice. Haiti doesn't have socialism. Never has. It was an ardent anti-communist nation. Its capital looks quite bad compared to Havana.
Sweden isn't socialist. Number one: They still have a monarchy, not to mention a multiparty parlimentary form of government. Not a "dictatorship of the proletariat". There are no monarchies in socialism.

You don't REALLY believe that Sweden and Cuba have the same form of government.... do you?

Sweden is a capitalist free market social democracy. Cuba is a neo-feudal materialist oligarchy.

There are no socialist countries in Europe. Ask yourself one question. Why was NATO created in the first place? Why was the Berlin Wall built? What was the Iron Curtain? Why was Radio Free Europe broadcasting? Answer: Because Europe and America were standing in OPPOSITION to Marx during the Cold War. We weren't opposing the Soviet axis while simultaneously practicing their belief system.

Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 12-31-2013 at 01:04 AM..
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Havana looks a lot like that, except the Detroit is a city abandoned by its largest industry. Havana is the center of government and commerce.

Cuba is Detroit on a national scale.

And Cuba and Detroit both looked drastically different in the days before institutionalized government tyranny of corruption took over.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Minneapolis and Seattle are quite liberal cities, and they look much nicer than Detroit. Boston is very liberal and is much nicer looking than Detroit. Detroit is an extreme example.

No. Detroit is no longer an extreme example. Sadly. What Detroit is, is an example of terminal corruption and mismanagement. It is the FIRST example of things to come.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:17 AM
 
770 posts, read 1,131,143 times
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Default Spot on

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You can look at statistics, some times manufactured by gov'ts. Or you can look at how people are living. I see no difference in how large numbers of people in Havana live and how people live in Rio's favelas. That is aside from the violent crime in Rio. However if Cubans didn't have its extensive secret police networks I feel confident that crime will be high there too.

In Brazil one can protest the conditions and demand that gov't and the elites take action to solve their problems.

In Cuba if one protests one that gets a visit from the police, accused of being counter revolutionary and potentially tossed in the lock ups.

Cubans have high literacy rates, but this hasn't translated into high living standards, based on those pictures. And there is a potential danger in that lower level jobs like taxi drivers and others involved in tourism earn way more than those in the professions. They also earn money in CUCs so can buy stuff in the more free market oriented stores which are better stocked.

Most Cubans, including the professionals who aren't in tourism or aren't part of the political elite get paid in pesos. So at some point (if it hasn't already happened) younger Cubans might think that education is a waste of time and their energies are better spent in tourism, or hustling in the underground economy.


And the diet of the average Cuban is horrendous because the state stores which accept pesos are empty and the special stores which are better stocked accept CUCs only, which most Cubans don't earn. And unlike other places there is little that people can do about it, so its filled many with a feeling of hopelessness and even despair.

Reality is that you can look at the stats which are impressive but there is no way that you would want to actually live in that country unless you were very connected to the elites, or were involved in tourism. To quote a cousin of mine who lives in Trinidad, only the poorest 5% of Trinidadians would want to live in Cuba. She has visited Cuba several times.
Oh, the joys of Socialism.... Comparing Cuba to the US is like comparing a Chimp with a bananna.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
No. Detroit is no longer an extreme example. Sadly. What Detroit is, is an example of terminal corruption and mismanagement. It is the FIRST example of things to come.

The riots of 1968 really started the decay of Detroit. Animals. Did they make it better? Hell no.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:20 AM
 
770 posts, read 1,131,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
Sweden isn't socialist. Number one: They still have a monarchy, not to mention a multiparty parlimentary form of government. Not a "dictatorship of the proletariat". There are no monarchies in socialism.

You don't REALLY believe that Sweden and Cuba have the same form of government.... do you?

Sweden is a capitalist free market social democracy. Cuba is a neo-feudal materialist oligarchy.

There are no socialist countries in Europe. Ask yourself one question. Why was NATO created in the first place? Why was the Berlin Wall built? What was the Iron Curtain? Why was Radio Free Europe broadcasting? Answer: Because Europe and America were standing in OPPOSITION to Marx during the Cold War. We weren't opposing the Soviet axis while simultaneously practicing their belief system.

Led,

This guy is dumber than a box of Borax, or Borat. Socialism only works until you can't take anyone elses money. It took a Margaret Thacher to get Great Britian back on track, otherwise they would be the Cuba of today in Europe.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,861,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
Sure, anywhere the socialist Democrat party was allowed to hold power for decades and use tax moneys to bribe voters with entitlements and bloated pensions and benefit programs, you will find run down CITIES. Not just buildings.
Yeah, San Francisco is run down and its infrastructure is in shambles. Same with Boston. Damn those Kennedys!

Seriously though, it's because of completely untrue blather like yours that the republican party and libertarianism are losing traction in American politics, thank god. Although I'd much rather people start thinking for themselves and realize how wrong they are, I know that's near impossible thanks to the celebration of idiocy on the right wing and the demonization of free, rational thought... so, keep on going! It only serves to marginalize conservatism more and more.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:30 AM
 
770 posts, read 1,131,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Yeah, San Francisco is run down and its infrastructure is in shambles. Same with Boston. Damn those Kennedys!

Seriously though, it's because of completely untrue blather like yours that the republican party and libertarianism are losing traction in American politics, thank god. Although I'd much rather people start thinking for themselves and realize how wrong they are, I know that's near impossible thanks to the celebration of idiocy on the right wing and the demonization of free, rational thought... so, keep on going! It only serves to marginalize conservatism more and more.

Well my excellent poster, I disagree. The most closed minds in America are Liberals. Any un-PC word or deed is renounced, any campus faux pas is adjudicated in a college star chamber court where outside attorneys are not allowed to speak on behalf of their clients, etc. And yes, Damn those Kennedys, they are a political parriahs, and the descendants of criminals. Funny, but JFK today would be judged as a right wing radical---shows how far to the left the nation has swung....sad.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,861,688 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webster Ave Guy View Post
Well my excellent poster, I disagree. The most closed minds in America are Liberals. Any un-PC word or deed is renounced, any campus faux pas is adjudicated in a college star chamber court where outside attorneys are not allowed to speak on behalf of their clients, etc. And yes, Damn those Kennedys, they are a political parriahs, and the descendants of criminals. Funny, but JFK today would be judged as a right wing radical---shows how far to the left the nation has swung....sad.
Yes, those closed campus courts are the scourge of American social fabric... considering that many conservatives think higher education is pointless or the devil, I don't think it should be that much of a hot button issue to the right wing.

As far as being "PC" goes, I hear more conservatives crying their eyes out about it than I hear calls for neutered language. And for that matter, I'm on my last legs here because of my LIBERAL use of pejoratives! yuk yuk yuk.

I'm happy that the long term paradigm shift of the US will be towards the left... It's just a shame that the are so many conservatives holding back the inevitable. There certainly needs to be a balance of conservative and liberal forces at work, but unfortunately as of right now, the American conservative movement has become a treasonous cancer on society and we just have to wait till it marginalizes itself more and more.
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