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Old 01-06-2014, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,928,953 times
Reputation: 16643

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post

So, who was ultimately responsible for ruining Venezuela?

Ask any Venezuelan what they think about Hugo Chavez.

You can try hard to sound "worldly" by finding every possible way to criticize the United States/capitalism; but at the end of the day, Chavez was terrible.
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,219 posts, read 29,044,905 times
Reputation: 32626
When the poor of any country get desperate, and you're in a blind rage, anything can happen! Those that helped bring Chavez or Castro to power, unwittingly, are now in Miami/Florida, and they worry not about ever being tried for their crimes! No different in Russia, those that, unwittingly, brought Lenin to power, they merely moved west.

But, for whatever reasons, the history lessons are never learned. And then you wonder why we have Obama for a President and we keeping moving forward into socialism!!!

Capitalism works very well, only with stop and yield signs in place!
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:09 AM
 
Location: El Sereno, Los Angeles, CA
733 posts, read 939,896 times
Reputation: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
When the poor of any country get desperate, and you're in a blind rage, anything can happen! Those that helped bring Chavez or Castro to power, unwittingly, are now in Miami/Florida, and they worry not about ever being tried for their crimes! No different in Russia, those that, unwittingly, brought Lenin to power, they merely moved west.

But, for whatever reasons, the history lessons are never learned. And then you wonder why we have Obama for a President and we keeping moving forward into socialism!!!

Capitalism works very well, only with stop and yield signs in place!
Obama is not very socialist at all, giving money to very capitalist banks and such, same ones that gave him those campaign funds by the way, dont believe that everyone give a dollar commercial crap, isn't even remotely socialist if you ask me.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:10 AM
 
463 posts, read 1,129,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Any country that falls victim to socialism/communism speaks well of capitalistic abuses/greed that led to it. So, in effect, the greedy/abusive capitalists, unwittingly, have brought this about, country after country. They simply failed to see the Stop/Yield signs until it was too late!

So, who was ultimately responsible for ruining Venezuela?
reports of the worldbank actually indicate poverty has been reduced by 80% under the leadership of Chavez, that's why the majority continues to vote for his party.

In countries like Guatemala tor the philippines here's no socialism, but pure capitalism and they are good us friends, so these countries must be paradises, right?

Untill, that is, you actually visit these countries and compare them to Cuba or Venezuela... and stumble upon undernourished children, slums everywhere.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:12 AM
 
463 posts, read 1,129,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
Ask any Venezuelan what they think about Hugo Chavez.

You can try hard to sound "worldly" by finding every possible way to criticize the United States/capitalism; but at the end of the day, Chavez was terrible.
Venezuelans who belong to the middle class or rich elite will of course hate Chavez, since he took their priviliges away. The poor, the majority, will tell you how their living circumstances improved.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:19 AM
 
463 posts, read 1,129,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlaneloli View Post
Obama is not very socialist at all, giving money to very capitalist banks and such, same ones that gave him those campaign funds by the way, dont believe that everyone give a dollar commercial crap, isn't even remotely socialist if you ask me.
maybe Obama is a socialist down in his heart, like DiBlasio, but his party and the machine that brought him to power, certainly isn't.

Despite Obamacare life in the us is still extremely expensive for the lower middle class and poor, compared to Western Europe. Poor Americans can pretty much forget about sending their kids to university, unless they are geniuses and can apply for a scholarship. In Western Europe it is accessible for all, in many Scandinavian countries even free. Need some braces in most Scandinavian countries? don't worry, you won't pay a penny if you can prove these braces are necessary. And that goes for everyone, no matter which healthcare they have. GDP per capita of these countries is comparable to the us...
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,928,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3 View Post
Venezuelans who belong to the middle class or rich elite will of course hate Chavez, since he took their priviliges away. The poor, the majority, will tell you how their living circumstances improved.

That's exactly that problem with Socialism.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,928,953 times
Reputation: 16643
Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3 View Post
reports of the worldbank actually indicate poverty has been reduced by 80% under the leadership of Chavez, that's why the majority continues to vote for his party.

In countries like Guatemala tor the philippines here's no socialism, but pure capitalism and they are good us friends, so these countries must be paradises, right?

Untill, that is, you actually visit these countries and compare them to Cuba or Venezuela... and stumble upon undernourished children, slums everywhere.
Poverty reduced by 80%? Are we talking about the same Venezuela here? You're telling me 80% less people are living outside of poverty now? Are you on drugs?


You can take the worst example of a capitalist country like Guatemala, or you can look at Costa Rica or Panama and realize they are in better shape than any Socialist country out there. Why don't you take a look at the living conditions in Nicaragua?
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:25 PM
 
692 posts, read 957,431 times
Reputation: 941
People need to understand there is a difference between Communism and Socialism.

You hate socialism? then I guess you also hate public schools, public transportation, libraries, universities and healthcare.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:43 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,538,918 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3 View Post
reports of the worldbank actually indicate poverty has been reduced by 80% under the leadership of Chavez, that's why the majority continues to vote for his party.

In countries like Guatemala tor the philippines here's no socialism, but pure capitalism and they are good us friends, so these countries must be paradises, right?

Untill, that is, you actually visit these countries and compare them to Cuba or Venezuela... and stumble upon undernourished children, slums everywhere.

It is true that a majority (51% maybe) voted for Chavez. Its is also true that the protests which occur in Caracas these days aren't the middle class any more. They all fled to Miami. Venezuela is a mess and many are tired of it, Chavez had charisma so inspired hope. The best that Maduro can do is to give them a Ministry of Happiness. People want jobs and the end to crime and food shortages.

Mr. Communist name one country where the population vote in a totalitarian dictatorship. Even Venezuelans want to keep the right to decide who should rule.

Communism is outdated and a failure and no longer exists. Those that were communist are now either crony capitalist (Russia/China), or just plain fascist (Cuba/North Korea).

Why don't you tell us Mr. Communist why North Koreans flee to the South and are shorter and less healthy, and North Korea after night falls is in total darkness when seen from satellite views. Capitalism isn't perfect and can be abused. But Communism has FAILED!!
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