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Poverty reduced by 80%? Are we talking about the same Venezuela here? You're telling me 80% less people are living outside of poverty now? Are you on drugs?
You can take the worst example of a capitalist country like Guatemala, or you can look at Costa Rica or Panama and realize they are in better shape than any Socialist country out there. Why don't you take a look at the living conditions in Nicaragua?
Mr. Communist looking at Costa Rica will not happen. He will find some excuse for its success to cover the dismal failure that is Cuba.
Venezuela did have some early successes under Chavez and to their credit they remain democratic, if only because the opposition is strong. That country was a mess when it was run by the elites with rampant poverty. I saw it for myself and was surprised as it is supposed to be a rich country.
But mismanaged state owned corporations and an excessively intrusive govt has ruined that country's economy. With high commodity prices most of South America enjoys economic growth. Not Venezuela, which is mired in stagnation, high crime and food shortages.
maybe Obama is a socialist down in his heart, like DiBlasio, but his party and the machine that brought him to power, certainly isn't.
Despite Obamacare life in the us is still extremely expensive for the lower middle class and poor, compared to Western Europe. Poor Americans can pretty much forget about sending their kids to university, unless they are geniuses and can apply for a scholarship. In Western Europe it is accessible for all, in many Scandinavian countries even free. Need some braces in most Scandinavian countries? don't worry, you won't pay a penny if you can prove these braces are necessary. And that goes for everyone, no matter which healthcare they have. GDP per capita of these countries is comparable to the us...
What would make you think that he's a socialist in his heart?
It is true that a majority (51% maybe) voted for Chavez. Its is also true that the protests which occur in Caracas these days aren't the middle class any more. They all fled to Miami. Venezuela is a mess and many are tired of it, Chavez had charisma so inspired hope. The best that Maduro can do is to give them a Ministry of Happiness. People want jobs and the end to crime and food shortages.
Mr. Communist name one country where the population vote in a totalitarian dictatorship. Even Venezuelans want to keep the right to decide who should rule.
Communism is outdated and a failure and no longer exists. Those that were communist are now either crony capitalist (Russia/China), or just plain fascist (Cuba/North Korea).
Why don't you tell us Mr. Communist why North Koreans flee to the South and are shorter and less healthy, and North Korea after night falls is in total darkness when seen from satellite views. Capitalism isn't perfect and can be abused. But Communism has FAILED!!
Quit calling non-communist countries communist, unless they were stateless, classless with no money and capital assets owned in common they weren't communist. As for facism I wouldn't call Cuba fascist, it's authoritarian but not totalitarian, as for North Korea, meh.
Poverty reduced by 80%? Are we talking about the same Venezuela here? You're telling me 80% less people are living outside of poverty now? Are you on drugs?
?
obviously you don't have to believe me. But let me post some reports you'll rarily see in american media...
This is the worldbank report (worldbank is a neo-liberal institution led by people close to wallstreet) Economic growth and the redistribution of resources associated with these Misiones have reduced moderate poverty significantly, from 50% in 1998 to 25% in 2012. Inequality has also declined, as evidenced by the Gini Index, which fell from 0.49 in 1998 to 0.39 in 2011, one of the lowest rates in the region.Venezuela Overview
So from 50% of the population to 25%, that's even more than 80 %.
of course there are other reports as well..http://www.cepr.net/documents/public..._fall_2008.pdf
[LEFT]
[SIZE=3]Venezuela has seen a remarkable reduction in poverty since the first quarter of 2003. In the ensuing four years, from 2003 to 2007,[/SIZE][SIZE=1]1 [/SIZE][SIZE=3]the poverty rate was cut in half, from 54 percent of households to 27.5 percent. (See Table 1). Extreme poverty fell even more, by 70 percent – from 25.1 percent of households to 7.6 percent. [/LEFT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][RIGHT]These poverty rates measure only cash income; as will be discussed below, they do not include non-cash benefits to the poor such as access to health care or education. [/SIZE][/RIGHT]
Obviously you'll not going to find this kind of information on websites of the Venezuelan opposition (by the way who also own a lot of television channels and other media in "dictatorship" Venezuela, and use these media outlets to continually criticise the government and call for strikes, even military coups...). You're also not going to find it in the mainstream american or miamilies.inc press...
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You can take the worst example of a capitalist country like Guatemala, or you can look at Costa Rica or Panama and realize they are in better shape than any Socialist country out there. Why don't you take a look at the living conditions in Nicaragua
According to the UN Human development index, Cuba has a higher living standard than Panama. (taking into account the total popuation, so the poor underclass is taking the living standards of the whole of Panama down). And before the revolution, according to the universally respected maddison statistics, it had the same GDP per capita as Guatemala, as I proved on another thread.
So improving living standards for the poor majority is a bad thing for you?
Well, then we have clearly a different view on what we consider to be a just society.
It is true that a majority (51% maybe) voted for Chavez. Its is also true that the protests which occur in Caracas these days aren't the middle class any more. They all fled to Miami.
most middle class stayed, there's no plundge in the demand in real estate in the middle class neighbourhoods of Venezuela, and no lack of anti-Chavez media either. Crime has been a problem even before Chavez took power. Food shortages were only a temporary problem due to the fact that some producers reacted to price controls. But according to a friend who went to Venezuela last year, you just can find anything in the giant supermercados as in all neighbouring countries. Another story invented by the opposition and hostile media in other words.
If they are tired of Maduro, they should vote for someone else next time. Untill the majority does, everyone has to respect the choice of the Venezuelan majority, and not ask for or support an undemocratic military coup, as the us did 10 years ago. The US likes democratic multi-party elections, but only if people vote for the right parties, if they don't, as in Chile for example or recently Paraguay or Egypt, they'll support a military coup.
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Communism is outdated and a failure and no longer exists. Those that were communist are now either crony capitalist (Russia/China), or just plain fascist (Cuba/North Korea).
China is a hugely succesful country, used to be one of the poorest and least developped countries in the world untill the 40's, in one or two decades it will overtake the us as the world's superpower. It's economic system is still socialist: all banks, most big companies are owned by the state. It is a hugely succesful system.
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Why don't you tell us Mr. Communist why North Koreans flee to the South and are shorter and less healthy, and North Korea after night falls is in total darkness when seen from satellite views. Capitalism isn't perfect and can be abused. But Communism has FAILED!!
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I've not been to North Korea, but on the contrary to China, North Korea has officially banned communism and marxist-leninism a few decades ago, and replaced it by "Yuche", a nationalistic autarkhian ideology. (and a failure). There is not a single hammer and sickle (the official symbol of the ruling party in the soviet-Union, China, etc.) in the whole of North Korea. Of course that's one of the many things you're not going to read or hear in American media.
Countries like the philippines, with American military bases and people loyal to the us at power, democracy and a capitalist economy, were much better than China untill the 50's. Now they are lagging far behind, with most people still living in extreme poverty.
What would make you think that he's a socialist in his heart?
His past: he engaged himself for homeless and poor people in his hometown Chicago, he also opposed the war in Iraq among other decisions which made him stand out.
Obamacare is also the best he could do to try to achieve universal healthcare for all, despite a lot of people opposed to the idea that everyone who is sick should have the right to be threated with decent healthcare.
Mr. Communist looking at Costa Rica will not happen. He will find some excuse for its success to cover the dismal failure that is Cuba.
Venezuela did have some early successes under Chavez and to their credit they remain democratic, if only because the opposition is strong. That country was a mess when it was run by the elites with rampant poverty. I saw it for myself and was surprised as it is supposed to be a rich country.
But mismanaged state owned corporations and an excessively intrusive govt has ruined that country's economy. With high commodity prices most of South America enjoys economic growth. Not Venezuela, which is mired in stagnation, high crime and food shortages.
For the people in the "barrio's" life improved considerably. Crime is usually a problem of hijacking and robbery of rich people. Of course I oppose that, but in the poor neighbourhoods seculrity improved according to many accounts.
Venezuela experienced economic growth for many years, now it's a bit down, but the same goes for Brazil for example.
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