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so you're ignoring the reports from CDC stating this crap started to go around in the USA in mid December 2019? okay, whatever you want to believe.
What BS.
"Reports....", "studies suggest...", etc. Your grasping at straws. I know of those reports you mention. Did you really read it? It's so vague, antibodies in donated blood, as to be meaningless. The scientific community is still digesting it, debating it's meaning. Regardless, the virus was not going around in mid-December in the US. People weren't dying in the US in December, people weren't dying in the US in January. The first recorded case in the US was in late January, from a travelor that had been in China. That's not a "study suggests", that's fact recorded by CDC. CDC has not changed it's stand or position on that.
Stop trying to divert the topic, is it mentioned in the CNN article? Why do you dismiss the article outright? I'ts like you are afraid to go there. CNN, for all it's faults and questionable timing, layed it out. China lied - the world died, simple as that. I swear do you get paid for this?
New diseases from other animals spread to humans in different continents, not only in Asia.
New outbreaks of cross species diseases may have existed before inks and paper were invented. Easier and faster human travel in recent centuries spread these faster than before.
according to CDC report, 39 samples of donated blood that were collected between December 13 to 16, 2019 already have this crap, and they came from california, oregon and washington state.
doesn't that also mean that thousands are already infected in the just those 3 states alone way before thousand of people in wuhan that were infected?
I do see it as a possibility that it didn't start in China, because of the massive spread in Northern Italy compared to other asian countries like Thailand. In that case, an early case spread from Italy to Wuhan and due to Chinese high R0 it spread faster.
But that is beside the point. The point is that if it started in China, then a lockdown had to be implemented in December, not in January to contain it. Blaming China for not locking down in early January is hypocritical as no western nation would have done it themselves and it would not have contained the virus inside China.
What BS.
"Reports....", "studies suggest...", etc. Your grasping at straws. I know of those reports you mention. Did you really read it? It's so vague, antibodies in donated blood, as to be meaningless. The scientific community is still digesting it, debating it's meaning. Regardless, the virus was not going around in mid-December in the US. People weren't dying in the US in December, people weren't dying in the US in January. The first recorded case in the US was in late January, from a travelor that had been in China. That's not a "study suggests", that's fact recorded by CDC. CDC has not changed it's stand or position on that.
Stop trying to divert the topic, is it mentioned in the CNN article? Why do you dismiss the article outright? I'ts like you are afraid to go there. CNN, for all it's faults and questionable timing, layed it out. China lied - the world died, simple as that. I swear do you get paid for this?
Address the topic at hand.
unfortunately, they are, it's just that they don't know it's covid. it's the same flu season just like every year.
I love the whole "fact recorded by CDC", but some how having covid detected in blood samples back in december 2019 are not facts?
given what's been happening, I don't know how any one can still believe that the first covid case in the US was in late January.
it's been here all along, but feel free to believe what you want to believe, the truth is that no one knows when and where this came from.
I do see it as a possibility that it didn't start in China, because of the massive spread in Northern Italy compared to other asian countries like Thailand. In that case, an early case spread from Italy to Wuhan and due to Chinese high R0 it spread faster.
But that is beside the point. The point is that if it started in China, then a lockdown had to be implemented in December, not in January to contain it. Blaming China for not locking down in early January is hypocritical as no western nation would have done it themselves and it would not have contained the virus inside China.
no one will implement a lockdown until the virus is identified and proven to be easily transmissible.
I do see it as a possibility that it didn't start in China, because of the massive spread in Northern Italy compared to other asian countries like Thailand. In that case, an early case spread from Italy to Wuhan and due to Chinese high R0 it spread faster.
But that is beside the point. The point is that if it started in China, then a lockdown had to be implemented in December, not in January to contain it. Blaming China for not locking down in early January is hypocritical as no western nation would have done it themselves and it would not have contained the virus inside China.
Don't let the other guy divert the topic into nonsense. Of course it did start in China.
It's not even about a China lockdown. It's more about transparency to the rest of the world. China was very effective in it's lockdown, able to use extremely draconian measures that the west could not get away with. However, one byproduct of an authoritative central government is that everythng is done under a cloak of secrecy, of fear of disclosure. It's that delay of publicizing the seriousness of this virus, the contagious nature of the virus, that doomed the rest of the world.
unfortunately, they are, it's just that they don't know it's covid. it's the same flu season just like every year.
I love the whole "fact recorded by CDC", but some how having covid detected in blood samples back in december 2019 are not facts?
given what's been happening, I don't know how any one can still believe that the first covid case in the US was in late January.
it's been here all along, but feel free to believe what you want to believe, the truth is that no one knows when and where this came from.
Why don't you simply start a new topic? This topic is not about your theories of the oriigination of Covid.
Maybe you thought it originated from Mars. Stop diverting this topic, which is about China mishandling of Covid. Why are you so defensive? Are your handlers giving you a hard time that this is being discussed in an open forum? Anyone can start a new topic, so start one.
CDC confirms that the first case of COVID in the US was in late January from a traveler from China, in fact 9 of the first 11 cases in the US where from travelers returning from Wuhan China.
Now let the good people of this forum discuss the topic at hand. Stop diverting the topic.
It's not even about a China lockdown. It's more about transparency to the rest of the world. China was very effective in it's lockdown, able to use extremely draconian measures that the west could not get away with. However, one byproduct of an authoritative central government is that everythng is done under a cloak of secrecy, of fear of disclosure. It's that delay of publicizing the seriousness of this virus, the contagious nature of the virus, that doomed the rest of the world.
You are right that transparency is the cause, but not in the way you think. Due to the lack of transperancy from China in the past, then western government did not trust Chinese data and came to their own conclusions.
I am from Norway. In February I found a document explaining Norways strategy at that time. They wrote that they believed there was hundreds of thousands of cases in Wuhan and that the death rate is actually similar to the flu. In other words, they thought China overreacted.
I was also given an article from a medical website, where the head of the Norwegian CDC wrote in January that he was convinced it will spread. This was never told to the public, because the goal was to prevent panic. It is the same story in America, with Trump saying that he knew it was bad, but he wanted to play it down to avoid panic.
China never said that it was not serious, in fact they said it was an airborne virus with around 1% death rate and their actions clearly indicated that they were extremly worried. But western governments did not trust China, and came to conclusion that it had a death rate of 0.1% and it was not airborne. Only when Italys health care started to collapse, then they started to reevaluate their conclusions.
You are right that transparency is the cause, but not in the way you think. Due to the lack of transperancy from China in the past, then western government did not trust Chinese data and came to their own conclusions.
I am from Norway. In February I found a document explaining Norways strategy at that time. They wrote that they believed there was hundreds of thousands of cases in Wuhan and that the death rate is actually similar to the flu. In other words, they thought China overreacted.
I was also given an article from a medical website, where the head of the Norwegian CDC wrote in January that he was convinced it will spread. This was never told to the public, because the goal was to prevent panic. It is the same story in America, with Trump saying that he knew it was bad, but he wanted to play it down to avoid panic.
China never said that it was not serious, in fact they said it was an airborne virus with around 1% death rate and their actions clearly indicated that they were extremly worried. But western governments did not trust China, and came to conclusion that it had a death rate of 0.1% and it was not airborne. Only when Italys health care started to collapse, then they started to reevaluate their conclusions.
No one knew what was going on in those early days, it was all new. But the key is to share information in the scientific and global community on what you DO know. You want to put a certain spin on it for the public, no problem. But the information needs to be reviewed by health professionals and academics.
Since day one China has deliberately lied, suppressed crucial information and destroyed evidence related to the coronavirus outbreak. The country has censored academic research in an attempt to control the narrative and has also silenced doctors and whistleblowers.
The article is not surprising, but it's damning in that it has evidence - leaked documents from China itself. It confirms what we knew all along. When you report half the number of deaths, and half the number of cases to the public when you clearly know otherwise, it's incomprehensable. The world needed all the information that is available.
And here, China is still a year later trying to deflect blame - saying the virus originated in India, Europe, the US. It's nonsense. They are even paying people to publish this nonsense in social media and to "control the narrative".
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