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It's idiotic that you added the "bioweapon" part to something that clearly does not mention this.
I dislike China's government for multiple reasons, but part of it is because structurally it has a lack of internal accountability and transparency which means a lot of little fiefdoms on different bureaucratic levels operating in the dark that are afraid of looking bad in front of the bureaucratic levels above it which leads to huge bungling of things like their early handling of the pandemic--or for another example from another period and similar bureaucratic hellscape, the bungled response to Chernobyl that thankfully had a scant few people willing to do the right thing against overwhelming bureaucratic opposition. That's something that will seriously bite China and the rest of the world in the ass again. You inserting insane bioweapon stuff without proof and linking to an article that does not say anything about intentional bioweapons is incredibly stupid and greatly misses the point on why China's government as it is structured is a threat to itself and others.
Unfortunately, the downside of what we're seeing in the US is incredible amounts of stupidity and misinformation spreading like wildfire akin to you posting an article about bureaucratic bungling in an authoritarian top-down society and inserting your paranoia about bioweapons.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-04-2020 at 03:27 PM..
NEWS FLASH DECEMBER 2020: CHINA LIED TO US, CNN IS SHOCKED!
CNN...LOL. What a joke of a news service.
Yeah gee thanks CNN for letting us know what the rest of us knew for months. No coincidence this was published AFTER the election. All of us essentially knew this 10 months ago. No need to add "bioweapon", China's mishandling of a global epidemic is condemnation enough.
NEWS FLASH DECEMBER 2020: CHINA LIED TO US, CNN IS SHOCKED!
CNN...LOL. What a joke of a news service.
Yeah gee thanks CNN for letting us know what the rest of us knew for months. No coincidence this was published AFTER the election. All of us essentially knew this 10 months ago. No need to add "bioweapon", China's mishandling of a global epidemic is condemnation enough.
so you're ignoring the reports from CDC stating this crap started to go around in the USA in mid December 2019? okay, whatever you want to believe.
so you're ignoring the reports from CDC stating this crap started to go around in the USA in mid December 2019? okay, whatever you want to believe.
That it went around the USA in December and that the US has had such a terrible time dealing with this due to the stupidity and paranoia surrounding this is pretty clear. That it's going around and the US is having this issue with people being idiotic in dealing with it is very clear. A terrible mistake here doesn't obviate the fact that the Chinese government and the way it's set up screwed up in the crucial early moments where a global pandemic could have been prevented. Yes, it's terrible that the US bungled and continues now to bungle its response from a terrible elected government that foments misinformation, but at the same time, we are certainly here because of much earlier bungling on the part of China's governmental structure that both made the initial spread undetected early on widespread and whose actions have played a large part in the distrust of governmental action in containing such.
That it went around the USA in December and that the US has had such a terrible time dealing with this due to the stupidity and paranoia surrounding this is pretty clear. That it's going around and the US is having this issue with people being idiotic in dealing with it is very clear. A terrible mistake here doesn't obviate the fact that the Chinese government and the way it's set up screwed up in the crucial early moments where a global pandemic could have been prevented. Yes, it's terrible that the US bungled and continues now to bungle its response from a terrible elected government that foments misinformation, but at the same time, we are certainly here because of much earlier bungling on the part of China's governmental structure that both made the initial spread undetected early on widespread and whose actions have played a large part in the distrust of governmental action in containing such.
so when is the initial spread exactly? the reality is that this crap had been in the US before it was identified in wuhan. When do you think the US will actually find out about this had it not been identified in china?
so when is the initial spread exactly? the reality is that this crap had been in the US before it was identified in wuhan. When do you think the US will actually find out about this had it not been identified in china?
What are you going on about? The fact is that the extent of the spread had been kept under wraps in the crucial early stages of the pandemic in Wuhan and the surrounding area. The initial spread as understand thus far was obviously in China and that long initial screw-up is strongly part of why the pandemic had such a long time to spread to other parts of the world and establish itself in other parts. If you have anything else to back up to the contrary, then go ahead, but this is generally how it's understood. China's local government bureaucracies screwed up the crucial initial early stages and for various reasons kept it under wraps which was to the detriment to everyone else as it allowed a larger incubation period and spread to other parts of the world. China isn't necessarily at fault for being the initial starting point as there were many other potential initial vectors for the spread of some pandemic aside from covid-19 that could have happened. The problem is that China has an opaque system that incentives not reporting such and it was to the world's detriment.
It's currently understood that it's unlikely there was some bioweapon program that went awry in China--instead, there's the much more reasonable and easier explanation that China was the source of a new virus which in different ways could have happened elsewhere (like the US with its massive concentrated industrial meat production heavily reliant on antibiotics that constantly and frequently rolls the dice for particularly virulent strains), but happened to occur in China. Where China screwed up to the detriment to everyone else is part and parcel of the link provided where the system there incentives underreporting and very aggressively on the local level to push things to the side. Without that, the pandemic would have little pathway to being a global pandemic. That's where China went wrong rather than the idea that a bioweapon was mishandled. It's important to realize that difference, because the greater indication for reform in China isn't that it's necessarily nefarious, but that it is incredibly bad in its very basic structure.
China's government isn't necessarily more at fault for being the origin of the virus as that can happen almost anywhere--China's government's fault is in having been set up in a structure that allows for a massive spread with limited direct repercussions for a very long time such that the pandemic was allowed to spread rampantly elsewhere in the very crucial early parts of the pandemic. This may have otherwise have been a short, small footnote in history of a potential pandemic.
The initial ****-up was China. The US and various other places screwed up afterwards. The dumb paranoia the OP's interjection into the article he posted is a fault of the US and part and parcel of why the US has done such a terrible job in reaction, but at the same time does not change the fact that there was an initial massive screw-up on China's part. Overall, this was a massive organizational screw-up. China's government leaned hard on the WHO to downplay things, but it would have not hd the power to do so with the US's disinvestment beforehand. The WHO had and has many programs that have saved many lives, but could not continue doing so without continued funding and the US had left it so that China's government was the primary funder. This put the WHO in a terrible position and under China's government's influence made terrible decisions early on as going against its largest funder would have been insane given its goal of saving lives throughout the world and the, at the time, good chance that things would have been fine.
China's government does have a lot of blame to shoulder, but the problem is that really stupid invenctives about the Chinese bioweapons in this context helps no one which is what we get in the US.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-04-2020 at 11:09 PM..
What are you going on about? The fact is that the extent of the spread had been kept under wraps in the crucial early stages of the pandemic in Wuhan and the surrounding area. The initial spread as understand thus far was obviously in China and that long initial screw-up is strongly part of why the pandemic had such a long time to spread to other parts of the world and establish itself in other parts. If you have anything else to back up to the contrary, then go ahead, but this is generally how it's understood. China's local government bureaucracies screwed up the crucial initial early stages and for various reasons kept it under wraps which was to the detriment to everyone else as it allowed a larger incubation period and spread to other parts of the world. China isn't necessarily at fault for being the initial starting point as there were many other potential initial vectors for the spread of some pandemic aside from covid-19 that could have happened. The problem is that China has an opaque system that incentives not reporting such and it was to the world's detriment.
It's currently understood that it's unlikely there was some bioweapon program that went awry in China--instead, there's the much more reasonable and easier explanation that China was the source of a new virus which in different ways could have happened elsewhere (like the US with its massive concentrated industrial meat production heavily reliant on antibiotics that constantly and frequently rolls the dice for particularly virulent strains), but happened to occur in China. Where China screwed up to the detriment to everyone else is part and parcel of the link provided where the system there incentives underreporting and very aggressively on the local level to push things to the side. Without that, the pandemic would have little pathway to being a global pandemic. That's where China went wrong rather than the idea that a bioweapon was mishandled. It's important to realize that difference, because the greater indication for reform in China isn't that it's necessarily nefarious, but that it is incredibly bad in its very basic structure.
China's government isn't necessarily more at fault for being the origin of the virus as that can happen almost anywhere--China's government's fault is in having been set up in a structure that allows for a massive spread with limited direct repercussions for a very long time such that the pandemic was allowed to spread rampantly elsewhere in the very crucial early parts of the pandemic. This may have otherwise have been a short, small footnote in history of a potential pandemic.
The initial ****-up was China. The US and various other places screwed up afterwards. The dumb paranoia the OP's interjection into the article he posted is a fault of the US and part and parcel of why the US has done such a terrible job in reaction, but at the same time does not change the fact that there was an initial massive screw-up on China's part. Overall, this was a massive organizational screw-up. China's government leaned hard on the WHO to downplay things, but it would have not hd the power to do so with the US's disinvestment beforehand. The WHO had and has many programs that have saved many lives, but could not continue doing so without continued funding and the US had left it so that China's government was the primary funder. This put the WHO in a terrible position and under China's government's influence made terrible decisions early on as going against its largest funder would have been insane given its goal of saving lives throughout the world and the, at the time, good chance that things would have been fine.
China's government does have a lot of blame to shoulder, but the problem is that really stupid invenctives about the Chinese bioweapons in this context helps no one which is what we get in the US.
look, even if you don't believe china's number at all, you would believe east asian countries such as korea, japan, vietnam, thailand, territories like hong kong, macau, taiwan right?
Think about it, if it truly spread initially in china, and it started to spread to the USA as stated by the CDC report by mid december 2019, those places above would have been swamped by this virus already if you compare the amount of people flowing from china to USA and east asia.
but whatever, china did screw up by actually identified the virus. Otherwise we would have just call it flu season 2020 and go on with our lives.
What are you going on about? The fact is that the extent of the spread had been kept under wraps in the crucial early stages of the pandemic in Wuhan and the surrounding area. The initial spread as understand thus far was obviously in China and that long initial screw-up is strongly part of why the pandemic had such a long time to spread to other parts of the world and establish itself in other parts. If you have anything else to back up to the contrary, then go ahead, but this is generally how it's understood.
The crucial early stages was in December, not in January. By new year thousands of people in Wuhan had been infected and there were severall cases abroad. Just because they were not detected does not mean they didn't exist.
So if China locked down Wuhan right after the virus was detected, it would have saved China, but it would make the rest of the world prepare even less as they would think the pandemic is under controll. In mid-march they would realize something is very wrong and lock down hard.
By messing up, China gave the world an early warning. Lots of countries did not take it seriously, but at least they did something.
The crucial early stages was in December, not in January. By new year thousands of people in Wuhan had been infected and there were severall cases abroad. Just because they were not detected does not mean they didn't exist.
So if China locked down Wuhan right after the virus was detected, it would have saved China, but it would make the rest of the world prepare even less as they would think the pandemic is under controll. In mid-march they would realize something is very wrong and lock down hard.
By messing up, China gave the world an early warning. Lots of countries did not take it seriously, but at least they did something.
according to CDC report, 39 samples of donated blood that were collected between December 13 to 16, 2019 already have this crap, and they came from california, oregon and washington state.
doesn't that also mean that thousands are already infected in the just those 3 states alone way before thousand of people in wuhan that were infected?
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