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Well, I think that this is a position of appeasement on the part of some atheists.
Is it just appeasement when we acknowledge that some definition of a god might exist? The sun was once worshipped as a god, and probably still is by some humans. The sun demonstrably exists, even though I wouldn't call it a "god".
Quote:
Why can't we just come right out and say that we know that the
Judeo-Christian God is a myth, pure and simple? Every bit as much as Zeus or
Apollo or Vishnu are myths. What description of God in the Bible has even a
modicum of evidence in support of it being real?
I believe we can say with a great degree (not absolute) of certainty the Judeo-Christian god is an anthropogenic myth, just like countless other anthropogenic myth-gods, some of which you note here.
I believe we can say with a great degree (not absolute) of certainty the Judeo-Christian god is an anthropogenic myth, just like countless other anthropogenic myth-gods, some of which you note here.
We also cannot say with absolute certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow, even though it has for as long as humans have existed and much longer. But nobody ever goes around saying they're not certain the sun will rise tomorrow. So, when we talk about certainty shouldn't we consider what people actually mean by this term in common usage?
Do atheists have to explain that "we're not 100% certain that the Judeo-Christian does not exist, but we're only as certain about it as we are that Zeus or Santa Claus, for example, does not exist"?
Do atheists have to explain that "we're not 100% certain that the
Judeo-Christian does not exist, but we're only as certain about it as we are
that Zeus or Santa Claus, for example, does not exist"?
As atheists per se, no. As people who respect the scientific method, I'd say yes. One thing that really irritates me about most theistic claims is the certainty by which they are asserted. I don't wish to find myself in that camp. I wish it understood that I find nearly all propositions falling within a range of probability. I will however agree that the probability of the Judeo-Christian god existing (from my perspective) is vanishingly small (much less than 1 percent). Also, some Christians define their creator god in a way that makes it a logical impossibility. Like for instance claiming it's omnipotent and omnibenevolent. Those two omnis don't mess logically with our less-than-loving reality.
I would also say the probability that known myths do not exist is significantly higher than assumed myths (popular, contemporary gods) that are not as widely agreed upon.
So to put that into for-demonstration-only numbers
Zeus god's (known myth) probability of existing.......................=>.00000000000001
Judeo-Christian god's (disputed myth) probability of existing.... =>.00000001
In other words, do you simply believe the Christian god exists or do you claim to know the Christian god exists? If you claim to know the Christian god exists, how would you go about demonstrating that knowledge, which should include information other than just feelings and emotions that others can also examine?
In other words, do you simply believe the Christian god exists or do you claim to know the Christian god exists? If you claim to know the Christian god exists, how would you go about demonstrating that knowledge, which should include information other than just feelings and emotions that others can also examine?
Nice question and getting back onto topic. Does our 'Jesus loves you' poster claim to know that the claims of Christianity are true (if so, how?) or does not claim to know but believes it (if so, why?) or does not claim to some mysterious Knowledge and just bases the adherence to Christianity on the evidence, in which case I dispute its reliability.
Do you consider yourself an agnostic or atheist? Why? I'm just curious about the two perspectives differ, and more importantly how agnostics and atheists differ.
I consider myself a highly skeptical agnostic. As I understand it 'god' is defined as a 'supernatural' entity that is beyond the perception and understand of humans. Such a concept seems completely impractical/useless to me because, by definition, it's impossible to know if such a thing exists because there is, and probably never will be evidence to support or discredit such a concept.
While I do acknowledge the existence of god is technically possible, at present there's absolutely no way we can know, and probably never will. So if something is unknowable, being in any way concerned about it seems like a complete waste of time and energy.
I don't identify myself as an atheist because most atheist I know of seem just as convinced there is no god as most theists are convinced there is. Consequently, many atheists and theists are imperious and self-righteous - personal characteristics that, to me, seem counterproductive.
I'm also completely open to perspectives of theists as well. As a secularist I'm genuinely curious about what motivates someone to be religious when it seems to me there's absolutely no direct evidence that god exists. I've read a couple books and some psychological research that offers plausible explanations, but am also curious to get first-hand perspective of why some persons are convinced of god's existence.
I'm agnostic and in reading the OP, I completely agree. It is very counterproductive to demand either side of the argument is correct, as there is no proof either way. It's just that simple. I used to be a Christian but after much serious thought and study, I can't give credence to something so undeniably unreasonable as "blind faith". I need proof.
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