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Why a belief there is no god? Why not just there is no god? Science mentions no god at all, so belief nor disbelief come into play in a science class. God is irrelevant, outside the field of study. That is science. Theists study science, they even work in the field. They see no conflict. It is just another kind of knowledge, like geography. No god. Theists study geography with no conflict. Do you see the pattern?
Religious people may say “in my religion… etc” but they also study evolution. I know the mention of theory gets very heated here, but it is. There is scientific theory and there is spiritual faith. The means of knowledge to each is different. A religious person might say earth is god, it is sacred. It is a blessing and we need to treat it with respect and care. So what? We all need to treat the earth with care, it cannot be drill baby drill. We know that.
If one is an atheist, how can it be an accusation? Why does it feel like an accusation? That might be something to think about.
My position is that God doesn't have to be mentioned. Yesterday, my family members and I explained things to each other with no mention of God. So just like science or geography, we explained our household life with no conflict. This is probably true of many believers as well. They may have to consciously remember God like at the dinner table. I no longer surround myself with people who thank God, but if the opportunity arises, a contribution with "amen" would be in order.
Atheism does have a negative connotation just like indoctrination does. Connotation adds a layer of "culture" through the area of language by eliciting emotional responses. My goal is not to remove the negative connotation of atheism. Instead, it is to neutralize my position.
My position is that God doesn't have to be mentioned. Yesterday, my family members and I explained things to each other with no mention of God. So just like science or geography, we explained our household life with no conflict. This is probably true of many believers as well. They may have to consciously remember God like at the dinner table. I no longer surround myself with people who thank God, but if the opportunity arises, a contribution with "amen" would be in order.
Atheism does have a negative connotation just like indoctrination does. Connotation adds a layer of "culture" through the area of language by eliciting emotional responses. My goal is not to remove the negative connotation of atheism. Instead, it is to neutralize my position.
what connotation words carry is to a large extent depends on the receiver. perhaps the connotation is even among Christians. It is not received the same way with all. speaking for myself if someone declares himself as atheist, happens, it raises neither positive nor negative connotation for me. not even curiosity. it is possible the emotional response is all in the atheists own mind.
don’t you think atheism is as much indoctrination as religion is?
don’t you think atheism is as much indoctrination as religion is?
No, there isn’t a set of ideas or opinions that is found amongst all atheists; we simply have a lack of belief in any god. That said, relative to those who are anti-theistic as well, I tend to agree. They have a belief religion, in and of itself, is harmful to society (and some do attempt to indoctrinate the rest of us accordingly).
what connotation words carry is to a large extent depends on the receiver. perhaps the connotation is even among Christians. It is not received the same way with all. speaking for myself if someone declares himself as atheist, happens, it raises neither positive nor negative connotation for me. not even curiosity. it is possible the emotional response is all in the atheists own mind.
Are you really ignorant about how atheists are considered in the US? and in certain Islamic countries, atheism is a death sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
don’t you think atheism is as much indoctrination as religion is?
I have never seen atheists positively promoting atheism outside of the bus campaign a few years ago (although we will tell theists why we believe they are wrong). And from the many posts by atheists explaining their journey, it appears to be conclusion made by individuals for most. My atheism certainly is.
Thanks. Like you I suspect, I've done an infinite amount of reading and watched even more programs and videos about this, and I think I'm going to go with maybe.
Well ... see ... push has already come to shove. The abolition of Roe v. Wade is an obvious indicator of this. Or ... do you think they'll stop with just one victory?
And guess what: Our legal system and leadership failed utterly to protect the reproductive rights of women. Ergo, we have lost control of our own bodies. Make no mistake that there was a HUGE religious component behind this ruling - especially given that the Supreme Court, the only defense the Constitution has, is now stacked to bursting with conservative right-wing judges.
It bothers me. It should bother anyone who values our freedoms and the ability to make our own choices. Mark my words: these people will NOT stop until even birth control is banned and every sexual act MUST have a chance for a baby. They will NOT stop until gays are put back into the closet and gay marriages are dissolved - or at least stopped so no future marriages can occur. Nor will they stop until doctors are prosectued for performing sexual reassignment surgery thus forcing transgenders to exist in the wrong body.
All you have to do is look what's happening in Florida - the book banning, the overt censorship in our public schools (now even teenagers are forbidden to discuss gays or transgenders in Florida - not just young children - as I said, give them an inch and they'll take a light year. Their victory regarding Roe v. Wade has emboldened people like Disantis to disregard the Constitution entirely - as if children regardless of age leave their rights at the door of their schools). Oh .. isn't it rather ... bizarre ... that Disantis thinks there is greater harm in kids knowing about gays and transgenders in school than there is getting murdered by a gunman with an AR-15? No gun control legislation to protect children - just anti-gay legislation to ... uh ... protect children. I guess.
In truth, this should bother every single American who hasn't already drowned in the Republican Kool-Aid.
Push is forever coming to shove and everyone thinks the others are "drinking the Kool-Aid." Not much anyone can do about the tug-of-war of ideals, opinions and beliefs that define our world, our society, so I try to remember what I can do something about, what I can't, and do as best I can to know the difference. (Or something like that). Otherwise, I find I'm not enjoying my life as well as I should.
"There's nothing clever about being unhappy." -- (not sure who).
My thought was actually far simpler.
If i believed, based on weather report, that there is 69% chance of rain, i will take my umbrella. If. If i disbelieve that it will rain because it is sunny right now, then i need to do nothing when i step out.
Belief in a divinity leads to action - of study of texts, prayer, worship. If you disbelieve divinity exists you need to do nothing.
This isn't really true. You could put on sun screen before you go out. You could put on sun glasses. You could change what you are wearing. You could skip taking your Vitamin D pill. You could also get rained on.
Your belief in divinity leading to action is also kind of shaky. Probably more people than don't..... say they "believe" and never or rarely pick up a holy book, never or rarely pray or go to worship service.
Meanwhile, a non believer can study books, videos, etc. that support humanist or atheist positions. Can join organizations that support humanism or atheism. They can attend atheist conferences. All kinds of "action" can be taken. As far as atheism in society, I suppose it could be "neutral" but it exists as an option for those who are skeptical. Generally grows by attraction rather than promotion or trying to sell a bill of goods...(happiness, heaven, etc.).
In the end a non believer can just say "I don't believe" and stay home and not give it another thought. Just like a believer can say "I do believe" and stay home and not give it another thought. The difference being that the atheist isn't going to have somebody come over and badger him about his "faith" while the marginal believer is likely to have that happen by someone who thinks they should take more action.
what connotation words carry is to a large extent depends on the receiver. perhaps the connotation is even among Christians. It is not received the same way with all. speaking for myself if someone declares himself as atheist, happens, it raises neither positive nor negative connotation for me. not even curiosity. it is possible the emotional response is all in the atheists own mind.
don’t you think atheism is as much indoctrination as religion is?
I must answer your question with a resounding no, but note what an interesting question it is...
Beginning with the definition of indoctrination: the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
To properly answer your question, and to do so in a critically thinking manner, you would please have to identify what about atheism is assessed or concluded uncritically. And/or also as compared to the process of how religions are taught to a person or group to accept a set of beliefs.
No, there isn’t a set of ideas or opinions that is found amongst all atheists; we simply have a lack of belief in any god. That said, relative to those who are anti-theistic as well, I tend to agree. They have a belief religion, in and of itself, is harmful to society (and some do attempt to indoctrinate the rest of us accordingly).
So you make a distinction between atheists and anti-theists. fair enough, although it is a nuance lost on me. we agree some kind of indoctrination does occur.
Push is forever coming to shove and everyone thinks the others are "drinking the Kool-Aid." Not much anyone can do about the tug-of-war of ideals, opinions and beliefs that define our world, our society, so I try to remember what I can do something about, what I can't, and do as best I can to know the difference. (Or something like that). Otherwise, I find I'm not enjoying my life as well as I should.
"There's nothing clever about being unhappy." -- (not sure who).
And the thing is, it was never Kool-Aid in the first place. It was Flavor-Aid, a cheaper knockoff.
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