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Huh? I don't have enough bread crumbs to be able to follow my way home after that.
The simplest assertion, logical and pure, goes like this:
a) the physical universe is finite and limited by virtue of its being physical, observable.
b) A physical universe ipsofacto requires a frame of time and space around everything in it.
c) limited, finite, physical space/time logically requires something beyond itself in order to exist, responsible for its creation, whatever you may call it. Something eternal. Something with the power to CREATE what we know within space/time. Because all that is within space/time cannot possibly have created itself.
The End.
Create (in capital letters) = creator = big jump = a god?
Yep, what do you think it means when we say we have a lack of ‘belief’ (in the existence of a god)? How else would one use the word in this Forum other than to argue such? I suppose one could discuss whether they believe (or not) in (the discussion of) gossip/drama. I have a lack of belief in that as well.;-)
One can say there is no such thing as god. God does not exist. That is an assertion, not a belief. A belief is stable, something that can be acted upon. A disbelief is not actionable.
c) limited, finite, physical space/time logically requires something beyond itself in order to exist, responsible for its creation, whatever you may call it. Something eternal. Something with the power to CREATE what we know within space/time. Because all that is within space/time cannot possibly have created itself.
I don't know if that's necessarily true, as we're not even sure if the concept of time or causality even applies outside of the boundaries of the physics of spacetime, within this universe.
But, either way, I'm okay with people having that type of deism type of belief, and leaving it at that. I just, don't know how people get from that, to women have to wear a sheet over their heads. Or taking communion, or the various weird rules of LDS people or Orthodox Jews, and people disagreeing over which day of the week is the "sabbath"- when all a day is, is the rotation of the planet.
Our little Earth society having all these rules and texts from said universe-creator... I call BS, on 100% of it.
Whether the universe is a physics simulation created by a nerdy bearded man in sandals, or not... you could say that's an unknown hypothesis, or not falsifiable. (Which, to be clear, is not evidence for it.)
A belief is only as stable (or foolish) as the (the lack of) logical reasoning behind it.
If only there were a stable and logical way to measure such things, but when even fools can think they are demonstrating sound reason and logic, lots of people can end up believing just about anything...
I don't know if that's necessarily true, as we're not even sure if the concept of time or causality even applies outside of the boundaries of the physics of spacetime, within this universe.
But, either way, I'm okay with people having that type of deism type of belief, and leaving it at that. I just, don't know how people get from that, to women have to wear a sheet over their heads. Or taking communion, or the various weird rules of LDS people or Orthodox Jews, and people disagreeing over which day of the week is the "sabbath"- when all a day is, is the rotation of the planet.
Our little Earth society having all these rules and texts from said universe-creator... I call BS, on 100% of it.
Whether the universe is a physics simulation created by a nerdy bearded man in sandals, or not... you could say that's an unknown hypothesis, or not falsifiable. (Which, to be clear, is not evidence for it.)
You're definitely going to hell for posting this comment.
One can say there is no such thing as god. God does not exist. That is an assertion, not a belief. A belief is stable, something that can be acted upon. A disbelief is not actionable.
Some people are very good of convincing themselves that they are always right.
One can say there is no such thing as god. God does not exist. That is an assertion, not a belief. A belief is stable, something that can be acted upon. A disbelief is not actionable.
You have a good point. Religion, which almost ways means a belief in a God, is part of a culture. To take it away, would mean less culture. For example, at mealtime, many families say a general thanks to everyone who is present and to the people who prepared the meal. However, religion would provide an additional layer of culture by thanking a God. Disbelief in a God would either take it away or never add to culture.
When we learn about culture during our schooling, the major research categories almost always include religion along with education, diet, clothing, holidays, music, government, etc... It is easy to see that atheism can be perceived as an attempt to chop off one of the major contributors to human behavior. If that is true, then a disbelief can be actionable.
If only there were a stable and logical way to measure such things, but when even fools can think they are demonstrating sound reason and logic, lots of people can end up believing just about anything...
There is a way by which to measure such things i.e. logical reasoning and knowledge; it is those who lack such who ‘end up believing (or arguing) just about anything’. In other words, simply telling someone not to believe is as nonsensical (or more) than the belief, in and of itself. The ability to think for one’s self is the entire point (as opposed to jumping on either bandwagon because they are told/expected to do such).
You have a good point. Religion, which almost ways means a belief in a God, is part of a culture. To take it away, would mean less culture. For example, at mealtime, many families say a general thanks to everyone who is present and to the people who prepared the meal. However, religion would provide an additional layer of culture by thanking a God. Disbelief in a God would either take it away or never add to culture.
When we learn about culture during our schooling, the major research categories almost always include religion along with education, diet, clothing, holidays, music, government, etc... It is easy to see that atheism can be perceived as an attempt to chop off one of the major contributors to human behavior. If that is true, then a disbelief can be actionable.
I'm having to think twice about whether I am understanding you or cb here, but I think I agree with where you are landing. Belief(s) and/or lack of belief(s) are certainly actionable in that what we believe or don't believe causes us to act accordingly.
Personally, at our dinner table going back to when our family first became a family and all the while after, we never had religion, prayer or thanks to a god as part of our "culture." We had all the other "major contributors" fairly represented, however, and I've never felt a lack of religion in our household was in any way a lack of culture. Although many of our travels together as a family and discussions did involve religion and religious cultural elements. From the Vatican in Italy, to the Mayan ruins in Mexico, to the watts in Thailand, etc.
For whatever any of that is worth as I sign off now to get on with preparing our BSB. Here's a good Sunday to all, and both the women's and men's NCAA championship games today and tomorrow!
Go SDSU (my daughter's alma mater). Sports is another of those cultural biggies. For me and many others anyway...
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