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Islam has no problems. It is how it is characterized by old fashioned Orientalists, that is the problem. Heinous, shocking, and memorable acts of violence are perpetrated everyday all over the world, including the US. The US has relationships with and tolerates massive amounts of violence, terrorism, torture and aggression in many parts of the middle east. They are not all Muslims.
I can't go as far as to think "Islam has no problems." In part because I have read the Koran...
However, I do think it's important to separate who or what is responsible for what people do in the name of their religion, or country, or whatever it is that inspires them to do what they do. If we did a better job of making these distinctions, we'd probably avoid making matters worse in a lot if not all these cases of retaliation, war and violence that begets more violence.
There are different meanings to the word 'belief'. It can simply mean 'confidence'. That's a different meaning than a religious belief.
I don't have, or need, religious beliefs, in order to navigate the world and my existence. Reality is what is observed and discovered about reality. If that changes, then reality changes. It's as simple as that.
I don't need any belief that the sun will rise tomorrow. I expect that it will. But it either rises, or it doesn't.
I have confidence in my belief that Existence is the only reality, and it exists in every single thing, both material and the unmanifested, and it drives our awareness, and that it is our essential self. I have confidence in my belief that it is good. I also have confidence in my belief that we do not know everything that is to know about our self, our world, or the universe. That ignorance, not-knowing, is our primal state of our being.
This is not “religious belief” , it is just belief and confidence that it cannot be denied.
I have confidence in my belief that Existence is the only reality, and it exists in every single thing, both material and the unmanifested, and it drives our awareness, and that it is our essential self. I have confidence in my belief that it is good. I also have confidence in my belief that we do not know everything that is to know about our self, our world, or the universe. That ignorance, not-knowing, is our primal state of our being.
This is not “religious belief” , it is just belief and confidence that it cannot be denied.
Have you ever believed in something to find out later you were deceived? Our minds are masters at telling us all sorts of things which are not true.
Our biggest problems are always having wrong view of ourselves. I have zero confidence in self, mine is in Christ.
I can't go as far as to think "Islam has no problems." In part because I have read the Koran...
However, I do think it's important to separate who or what is responsible for what people do in the name of their religion, or country, or whatever it is that inspires them to do what they do. If we did a better job of making these distinctions, we'd probably avoid making matters worse in a lot if not all these cases of retaliation, war and violence that begets more violence.
Every system has problems, be it capitalism, communism, atheism, etc, etc. Religion is no exception. All of them have their positive, healthy side, and that which does not work quite well. You can read the quran and interpret it one way, and that is your interpretation. It makes Islam neither good nor bad, it simply is what ot is and has inspired millions to be good people, achieve great things.
Same way you can read history and and draw your own conclusions about who did what to whom and why, who is right and who is wrong. That does not make the facts on the ground, how borders are drawn, who has the power and why, and who suffer and who gains, any truer.
Have you ever believed in something to find out later you were deceived? Our minds are masters at telling us all sorts of things which are not true.
Our biggest problems are always having wrong view of ourselves. I have zero confidence in self, mine is in Christ.
Deceived by my belief? Not that i can think of, maybe I lucked out. Trust another person who turned out to be untrustworthy? Yes.
Our minds are not dependable, absolutely. Our mind is not our self. I agree having a wrong view of the nature of our self is our biggest problem to be solved. Solve we must in order to gain liberation from our false attachments. When we understand the nature of our self we realize our goodness, our truth, our fullness. Truth will indeed set us free. I have full confidence this is so and it is true for you and every single being.
You can read the quran and interpret it one way, and that is your interpretation.
Yeah, and look at how all these people interpret it. Because, it's an awful holy book that even allows for such possible interpretations.
The Buddhists aren't doing suicide bombs or any of this bad stuff, because they don't have the Koran.
There's a lot of stuff about the non-believers in that book, and holy war. If you have to argue for a generous interpretation of your holy book in order to make it not teach violence and despising infidels, then, it's a bad holy book and a bad religion.
You know, just maybe, we shouldn't even care what things that were written over 1,000 years ago say or not, or what any of these Iron Ages belief systems claim about the universe, since we know a lot more about the universe (and ourselves, and everything else), in 2023, than any of them did. Just a thought.
I have confidence in my belief that Existence is the only reality, and it exists in every single thing, both material and the unmanifested, and it drives our awareness, and that it is our essential self. I have confidence in my belief that it is good. I also have confidence in my belief that we do not know everything that is to know about our self, our world, or the universe. That ignorance, not-knowing, is our primal state of our being.
This is not “religious belief” , it is just belief and confidence that it cannot be denied.
Yeah, and look at how all these people interpret it. Because, it's an awful holy book that even allows for such possible interpretations.
The Buddhists aren't doing suicide bombs or any of this bad stuff, because they don't have the Koran.
There's a lot of stuff about the non-believers in that book, and holy war. If you have to argue for a generous interpretation of your holy book in order to make it not teach violence and despising infidels, then, it's a bad holy book and a bad religion.
You know, just maybe, we shouldn't even care what things that were written over 1,000 years ago say or not, or what any of these Iron Ages belief systems claim about the universe, since we know a lot more about the universe (and ourselves, and everything else), in 2023, than any of them did. Just a thought.
It is your subjective opinion as an outsider to the culture and sentiments to call it an awful holy book.
Please educate yourself before posting anything that comes into your head. A simple google, violence and buddhist monks will do it. You would have learnt something.
Nobody is immune to violence, it is human nature. How we control human impulses and sublimate it is our responsibility. Books cannot act, that is a simple fact. ONLY people can and they alone ate teonsible.
All texts are subject to interpretation. That is also a human impulse because the meaning in the text has to make sense.
Let's see if I can do better (although I'm not sure this deserves much more attention)...
Perhaps just best to say that being an atheist for a long time has not got in the way of me enjoying life and it's pleasures, though of course I've been through my share of ups and downs as well. Also just to say, I have a certain satisfaction from the sense of being comfortably grounded in reality and/or not kidding myself about a god or spirituality, let alone religion that brings comfort to so many people in a way that is not my way.
How's that?
Otherwise it sure seems to me this thread is full of different views, perspective and understanding about what is a belief, opinion and reasons for them. What is good justification or worthy? Needless to say, different people have all variety of versions that all too often are not reconcilable with people who think differently about these dynamics. Call them whatever you like, but for me anyway, it generally boils down to what we can know is fact and truth vs what we can't. Call me simple.
The post-modern disease is the individuation even of truth itself. What works for me is true. I don't care about YOUR truth. But there are things that are simply true: 2 + 2 = 4. We can't make it to be 5, just because we want it to be so.
Everyone must take personal responsibility for their lives. "There are atheists AMONG you!" Everywhere. All over the place. And agnostics with them.
But personal responsibility for living does not make the entire world over in our own personal image. The header at the top of this thread is "loaded," anyhow. The answer is already contained in the premise, there. It's a "gotcha" thread, from the start. Be that as it may, it's an intellectual assertion being made. Intellectual arguments are dispassionate and reasoned.
It's inadequate just to posit: "Well, it works for ME."
It is your subjective opinion as an outsider to the culture and sentiments to call it an awful holy book.
Yes, I am a western secular liberal person, observing the reality of the Islamist countries (and the Jihadist terrorists and ISIS, etc.), and judging Islam and their holy text to be a clearly not good thing for our species.
It's no more incorrect or false than any other religion. They're all that much. But at least the most conservative Greek Orthodox people are not strapping explosives to their chests and detonating them in hotel lobbies full of women and children, in the name of some holy war.
And, atheists, definitely don't do that crap. Not everyone who is religious is irrational. Of course. But religion sure seems to help people be irrational, and worse. And clearly some religions more than others.
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