North Fulton County lawmaker wants to split from South Fulton to create "Milton County" (Atlanta: credit, transfer)
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Even if Atlanta completely turned around (and it is on its way, for now at least), it won't matter to you people. It will never be "good enough" until the city of Atlanta does end up like Detroit. And guess what, despite the nice suburbs, the Detroit metro continues to LOSE people, jobs and businesses. A metro area without a healthy core WILL perish.
And an airport we can be proud to walk through? Are you serious? What is wrong with Hartsfield? It's pretty damn nice.
Won't matter to....."you people"...wow, one might call THAT racist...now wouldn't one? It's not Atlanta....it's Fulton but, no matter, I get your point....and if Atlanta ever DOES end up like Detroit, it won't be North Fulton's fault? You couldn't lay that at their feet. Atlanta must control it's own destiny and no, no sensible person would want that to happen.
If it fails, look no further than the management therein. A healthy core has to consist of sustainable business in the core, not soak the taxes in the Northern part of the county because "we couldn't draw a business in if we had to"....leaning on the outer county is a baaaaaad strategy, don't you think? Wouldn't it be better to develop it's own economy???????
Just like you can't tax your way out of recession, Atlanta/Fulton can't tax it's way to success. You actually have to produce commerce instead of simply feeding off it???
What happened in Detroit was a racist black mayor that hated Whites, bashed them at every turn when he took office in the 70's, and then promptly drove/pushed them out of the city and then pointed the finger at the ones he pushed out as the reason Detroit failed? Do you realize how stupid that really, really looks? Did you think it washed? Uh.....nope....
Detroit continues to lose jobs because for DECADES as the American automotive manufacturers continued to lose marketshare (again, over decades, much like the way Fulton/Atlanta keeps doing things) by producing mediocre products for short term gains with NO long term vision, strapped by unions and pension liabilities, ultimately spelled doom for Detroit. The mayor just threw gas on the smoldering fire. He was the exclamation point on the inevitable.
For a historical perspective, in 1990 GM had 62 percent of the marketshare in America. That means, in 1990 6.2 cars/trucks that rolled down Americas highways and byways was a GM product.....by 2000 that had shrunk to 22 or 25%.....10 years, dropped by more than 1/2....10 years as a wake up call.....and now? In 2008 (18 YEARS LATER) they almost went bankrupt....and to top it off, showed up to the hearings in jets....
Some in control in Atlanta/Fulton, just like Detroit, just don't seem to get the damn message....do they? How long will it take? How much more time will they "need".....Christ, you could turn the Cleveland Browns around faster than this.....
The airport? It's OKAY but really, it's just big. There are other airports, albeit not as big, that run VERY well....from parking to TSA, to maintenance, to mass transit......you can't just measure it's performance by size....I just love the lack of alacrity in the workers down there....it makes no money, is owned by the city, and the State of Georgia offered 2 Billion (that's Billion, with a B) for it and the City passed....why? jobs and votes....jobs and votes....in that order....they could have used the 2 billion (with a B) to shore up some of the 3 billion (with a B) sewer crisis but noooooooooooooooo, why take that chance? The State would have improved it's image and service levels.....afterall, it's the first thing business sees when it arrives....well, they did get the cabs cleaned up...that only took 30 years....sigh.....
And you want them to give Fulton.....more time? Do you really, really think it will get that much "better" if we wait say, another 30 years as commerce passes us by? Instead of thinking "you people" hate Fulton and Atlanta for whatever reason(s), why don't you look at what Atlanta/Fulton is doing WRONG and let's go from there?
Afterall, there is a thing called accountability. Even for municipal governments who seem to be completely immune to the idea. Right up there with the recent debate to rename streets in some dead guys honor....people are hungry, people have few jobs, traffic is abysmal, and they want to rename streets???
Quit your crying, man up, step up, be accountable. It's not us vs. them...it's one big fat county. Drop the R card because no one is buying it. It's based on historical FACTS...nothing more....nothing less....And besides, we aren't looking for "good enough"...that's something the likes of what GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Detroit do....we are looking for EXCELLENCE...and what, precisely, is wrong with that?
If I wanted "good enough" I would look to hire the guy that ran Clayton into the ground....
And you wonder why those who pay those taxes might voice a "concern" on how the money is spent? Here's a clue, people are going to be a lot happier if you let them spend some of THEIR money on THEIR communities too? Afterall, I believe you would want the same equality across the board...right? You want thing to be equal and fair too...right? So, in that light, would it be so unreasonable for those that are paying a disproportionate amount of the taxes at least see an improvement in what they receive for said taxes?
Happy? No. Why? Track record. We "people" have rights too you know...I know that's hard to believe and that should always just be a given but, it really, really is true! You know, because we all want to be fair and equal and all.....it can't be a one way street you know, it has to be two way...
Even for "you people" the people formerly known as North Fulton County Taxpayers....
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,086,242 times
Reputation: 3995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet
That's precisley what the debate is all about. Kind of like taxation with little representation?
To the gent that there are counties that have over 1,000,000 out West that do just fine?
Great, name them. And before you spout off anything in California, you better think twice. These are the guys that took the WORLD's 8th largest GNP to bankruptcy....being big doesn't necessarily mean you are getting it done?
Won't matter to....."you people"...wow, one might call THAT racist...now wouldn't one? It's not Atlanta....it's Fulton but, no matter, I get your point....and if Atlanta ever DOES end up like Detroit, it won't be North Fulton's fault? You couldn't lay that at their feet. Atlanta must control it's own destiny and no, no sensible person would want that to happen.
If it fails, look no further than the management therein. A healthy core has to consist of sustainable business in the core, not soak the taxes in the Northern part of the county because "we couldn't draw a business in if we had to"....leaning on the outer county is a baaaaaad strategy, don't you think? Wouldn't it be better to develop it's own economy???????
Just like you can't tax your way out of recession, Atlanta/Fulton can't tax it's way to success. You actually have to produce commerce instead of simply feeding off it???
What happened in Detroit was a racist black mayor that hated Whites, bashed them at every turn when he took office in the 70's, and then promptly drove/pushed them out of the city and then pointed the finger at the ones he pushed out as the reason Detroit failed? Do you realize how stupid that really, really looks? Did you think it washed? Uh.....nope....
Detroit continues to lose jobs because for DECADES as the American automotive manufacturers continued to lose marketshare (again, over decades, much like the way Fulton/Atlanta keeps doing things) by producing mediocre products for short term gains with NO long term vision, strapped by unions and pension liabilities, ultimately spelled doom for Detroit. The mayor just threw gas on the smoldering fire. He was the exclamation point on the inevitable.
For a historical perspective, in 1990 GM had 62 percent of the marketshare in America. That means, in 1990 6.2 cars/trucks that rolled down Americas highways and byways was a GM product.....by 2000 that had shrunk to 22 or 25%.....10 years, dropped by more than 1/2....10 years as a wake up call.....and now? In 2008 (18 YEARS LATER) they almost went bankrupt....and to top it off, showed up to the hearings in jets....
Some in control in Atlanta/Fulton, just like Detroit, just don't seem to get the damn message....do they? How long will it take? How much more time will they "need".....Christ, you could turn the Cleveland Browns around faster than this.....
The airport? It's OKAY but really, it's just big. There are other airports, albeit not as big, that run VERY well....from parking to TSA, to maintenance, to mass transit......you can't just measure it's performance by size....I just love the lack of alacrity in the workers down there....it makes no money, is owned by the city, and the State of Georgia offered 2 Billion (that's Billion, with a B) for it and the City passed....why? jobs and votes....jobs and votes....in that order....they could have used the 2 billion (with a B) to shore up some of the 3 billion (with a B) sewer crisis but noooooooooooooooo, why take that chance? The State would have improved it's image and service levels.....afterall, it's the first thing business sees when it arrives....well, they did get the cabs cleaned up...that only took 30 years....sigh.....
And you want them to give Fulton.....more time? Do you really, really think it will get that much "better" if we wait say, another 30 years as commerce passes us by? Instead of thinking "you people" hate Fulton and Atlanta for whatever reason(s), why don't you look at what Atlanta/Fulton is doing WRONG and let's go from there?
Afterall, there is a thing called accountability. Even for municipal governments who seem to be completely immune to the idea. Right up there with the recent debate to rename streets in some dead guys honor....people are hungry, people have few jobs, traffic is abysmal, and they want to rename streets???
Quit your crying, man up, step up, be accountable. It's not us vs. them...it's one big fat county. Drop the R card because no one is buying it. It's based on historical FACTS...nothing more....nothing less....And besides, we aren't looking for "good enough"...that's something the likes of what GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Detroit do....we are looking for EXCELLENCE...and what, precisely, is wrong with that?
If I wanted "good enough" I would look to hire the guy that ran Clayton into the ground....
And you wonder why those who pay those taxes might voice a "concern" on how the money is spent? Here's a clue, people are going to be a lot happier if you let them spend some of THEIR money on THEIR communities too? Afterall, I believe you would want the same equality across the board...right? You want thing to be equal and fair too...right? So, in that light, would it be so unreasonable for those that are paying a disproportionate amount of the taxes at least see an improvement in what they receive for said taxes?
Happy? No. Why? Track record. We "people" have rights too you know...I know that's hard to believe and that should always just be a given but, it really, really is true! You know, because we all want to be fair and equal and all.....it can't be a one way street you know, it has to be two way...
Even for "you people" the people formerly known as North Fulton County Taxpayers....
Holy cow... your rant is all over the place and there is just too much here to even begin to go through and correct.
I'm just going to focus on these airport comments. The airport is an investment worth faaar more than $2b. In fact that is closer to the cost of the new international terminal alone.
The airport does make money! It is actually considered to be one of the most efficient airports, which has won industry awards for. Part of this is luck of the draw geographically, but most frequent fliers understand it is one of the best designed hubs. There is no wasted space, the whole secured side of the airport is accessible within it self and is easy to move around in, there are not multiple terminals, and there is a high variety of dining choices and the prices are not overinflated near as much as other airports like LGA, ORD, JFK, MIA, LAX, even DFW (which is doing better than the rest in that department).
The city does not have to spend money on its airport. The airport does issue bonds for expansion projects, as well as take in federal subsidies for expansions, but the money it makes can pay off the bonds. On top of that it still has the lower per passenger cost contract to airlines out of the major hub airports around the country.
The airport in itself is amazingly well managed. Most of people's complaints about it usually stem from it being so large and busy, since it is the world's busiest airport.
As a frequent flier, who has to fly for any contract he gets, I find ATL is one of the easiest hub airports to get around than the others by a long shot. I'll admit other airports DFW and MIA offer shorter curb to gate distances, but that sometimes comes with a cost of backed up security lines. ATL masses everything in one terminal and makes everything efficient, attracts a high number of flights, which makes ATL one of the cheapest places in the country to operate out of if you have to travel around alot on business.
However, even though I am mostly staying out of the Milton debate, bringing up the airport is probably not the best idea. The airport is probably the single best example why the suburban counties owe the city of Atlanta for their economic success. We all get the benefit of that airport. That airport also attracts businesses and economic development for us. However, the city of Atlanta owns and it paid for it initially.... not Gwinnett, Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, or even the State of Georgia.
So if your argument is really to argue for the separation of Milton from what is essentially the part of Fulton County mostly populated from the city of Atlanta, I would choose not to bring up the things they manage well and benefit everyone in the region.
In the midst of the worst recession and a birthing global depression, this is NOT the time to divide our city in half due to old sentiments about race and money.
This wouldn't be happening if Fulton County had simply taken care of business over the years. Residents on the north end have been trying to get more equitable treatment for decades, and it's the refusal of Fulton County to deal with them that finally provoked the Milton County movement.
The folks I know up that way realize their area is prosperous and historically they've been willing to put in more than they got back for the good of the county as a whole. They know that helping the region helps them so they weren't looking for a dollar-for-dollar return. However, you can't let things stay too lopsided for too long. And for them it's about a lot more than money, of course. The county needs to be responsive to all residents in planning, transportation, healthcare, schools, libraries, courts, public safety and a slew of other services.
Bear in mind that there have been plenty of people trying to get Fulton to mend its ways. Guys like Ed Lindsey (House majority whip) and other powers that be in the city have worked hard to keep Fulton County intact. But this has been going on a long time and you have to wonder if there's too much water over the dam at this point.
The county needs to be responsive to all residents in planning, transportation, healthcare, schools, libraries, courts, public safety and a slew of other services.
Planning? Fulton County can't plan anything for the North Fulton because it's incorporated. Not a county function when it comes to cities.
Transportation? One acronym - MARTA. The state hampers its growth by dictating how its money is spent. Again, Fulton can't do any transportation planning for incorporated cities.
Healthcare? The county spends millions on the largest charity hospital in the Southeast. No help comes from the state. You guys don't want Grady clinics in your back yards.
Schools? N. Fulton has a 5-2 majority on the school board. That is why you have new high schools that look like palaces. In 2008 S. Fulton received its first new high school in 15 years when Westlake was rebuilt. The majority of your tax dollars goes to the school system.
Libraries? Fulton has a master plan for new libraries for N Fulton.
Courts? You know have your own cities with municipal courts so that is no longer a county function unless it's a case for Superior or State Court.
Public Safety? See cities
Parks? See cities
Any other services other than Health and Human Service functions you need to contact your local city.
Fulton has constantly lowered its millage rate. It is now one of the lowest in metro Atlanta.
An argument for Milton County is weak. I say if you really got to have it then go ahead. It should constitute everything north of the river. Then you will need to pay FC Board of Education for all the school property that sits in Milton County. That will amount to roughly $2 billion. Oh that won't happen because the Republicans at the state house will GIVE you every school without compensating Fulton County School Board although S Fulton money was and is being spent to build newer schools up there. Remember S Fulton didn't get a new high school for 15 years while they collected SPLOST from the cities, Fulton Industrial Blvd (which built Sandy Springs btw) and areas outside of Atlanta.
After further thought a Milton County argument is disengenuos.
Won't matter to....."you people"...wow, one might call THAT racist...now wouldn't one? It's not Atlanta....it's Fulton but, no matter, I get your point....and if Atlanta ever DOES end up like Detroit, it won't be North Fulton's fault? You couldn't lay that at their feet. Atlanta must control it's own destiny and no, no sensible person would want that to happen.
If it fails, look no further than the management therein. A healthy core has to consist of sustainable business in the core, not soak the taxes in the Northern part of the county because "we couldn't draw a business in if we had to"....leaning on the outer county is a baaaaaad strategy, don't you think? Wouldn't it be better to develop it's own economy???????
Just like you can't tax your way out of recession, Atlanta/Fulton can't tax it's way to success. You actually have to produce commerce instead of simply feeding off it???
What happened in Detroit was a racist black mayor that hated Whites, bashed them at every turn when he took office in the 70's, and then promptly drove/pushed them out of the city and then pointed the finger at the ones he pushed out as the reason Detroit failed? Do you realize how stupid that really, really looks? Did you think it washed? Uh.....nope....
Detroit continues to lose jobs because for DECADES as the American automotive manufacturers continued to lose marketshare (again, over decades, much like the way Fulton/Atlanta keeps doing things) by producing mediocre products for short term gains with NO long term vision, strapped by unions and pension liabilities, ultimately spelled doom for Detroit. The mayor just threw gas on the smoldering fire. He was the exclamation point on the inevitable.
For a historical perspective, in 1990 GM had 62 percent of the marketshare in America. That means, in 1990 6.2 cars/trucks that rolled down Americas highways and byways was a GM product.....by 2000 that had shrunk to 22 or 25%.....10 years, dropped by more than 1/2....10 years as a wake up call.....and now? In 2008 (18 YEARS LATER) they almost went bankrupt....and to top it off, showed up to the hearings in jets....
Some in control in Atlanta/Fulton, just like Detroit, just don't seem to get the damn message....do they? How long will it take? How much more time will they "need".....Christ, you could turn the Cleveland Browns around faster than this.....
The airport? It's OKAY but really, it's just big. There are other airports, albeit not as big, that run VERY well....from parking to TSA, to maintenance, to mass transit......you can't just measure it's performance by size....I just love the lack of alacrity in the workers down there....it makes no money, is owned by the city, and the State of Georgia offered 2 Billion (that's Billion, with a B) for it and the City passed....why? jobs and votes....jobs and votes....in that order....they could have used the 2 billion (with a B) to shore up some of the 3 billion (with a B) sewer crisis but noooooooooooooooo, why take that chance? The State would have improved it's image and service levels.....afterall, it's the first thing business sees when it arrives....well, they did get the cabs cleaned up...that only took 30 years....sigh.....
And you want them to give Fulton.....more time? Do you really, really think it will get that much "better" if we wait say, another 30 years as commerce passes us by? Instead of thinking "you people" hate Fulton and Atlanta for whatever reason(s), why don't you look at what Atlanta/Fulton is doing WRONG and let's go from there?
Afterall, there is a thing called accountability. Even for municipal governments who seem to be completely immune to the idea. Right up there with the recent debate to rename streets in some dead guys honor....people are hungry, people have few jobs, traffic is abysmal, and they want to rename streets???
Quit your crying, man up, step up, be accountable. It's not us vs. them...it's one big fat county. Drop the R card because no one is buying it. It's based on historical FACTS...nothing more....nothing less....And besides, we aren't looking for "good enough"...that's something the likes of what GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Detroit do....we are looking for EXCELLENCE...and what, precisely, is wrong with that?
If I wanted "good enough" I would look to hire the guy that ran Clayton into the ground....
And you wonder why those who pay those taxes might voice a "concern" on how the money is spent? Here's a clue, people are going to be a lot happier if you let them spend some of THEIR money on THEIR communities too? Afterall, I believe you would want the same equality across the board...right? You want thing to be equal and fair too...right? So, in that light, would it be so unreasonable for those that are paying a disproportionate amount of the taxes at least see an improvement in what they receive for said taxes?
Happy? No. Why? Track record. We "people" have rights too you know...I know that's hard to believe and that should always just be a given but, it really, really is true! You know, because we all want to be fair and equal and all.....it can't be a one way street you know, it has to be two way...
Even for "you people" the people formerly known as North Fulton County Taxpayers....
First of all, I am WHITE, not black and "you people" was not "racist". LOL are you kidding me? The fact you took it that way illustrates the issues here though. I meant "you people" as in North Fulton folks/suburban folks that hate Atlanta and want to see it die - it doesn't matter what race you are! And maybe I have you all wrong - maybe you don't "hate" Atlanta and want it to decline, but Atlanta can only do so much for itself when it doesn't have the support of the metro area and the state.
cwkimbro pretty much summed up how I feel about your ridiculous airport comments. Also, I understand wanting more control over your communities... most of the northern suburbs have incorporated so you do have a lot of control. I don't see the point in Milton County other than to screw over Fulton County.
Taxation without representation? Look at the Fulton County School Board. Each of the cities in North Fulton have their own representative (5). All seven cities and unincorporated South Fulton have two representatives. My tax dollars are being used to give North Fulton children a top notch education with experience teachers and world class facilities. In the meantime my kids get first year teachers and dilapidated buildings with little or no technology. Then the system has the nerve to want to prevent my child the opportunity to attend those schools while I continue to live in South Fulton.
Our tax dollars are abused by the FCBOE. It has the nerve to want to float another SPLOST when several members sat on the Milton County reestablishment board. That's criminal!!!
This just proves my point from my earlier post ^^^^^. The motivation to have Milton Co re-established is purely a racial motive due to the fact that the N. Fulton area doesnt want to have a thing to do with S Fulton or the city of Atlanta....but TOTALLY owes it existence to Atl. How wrong and evil! I was not aware that the FC school board is majority N fulton residents. No matter what way you sum it up, it is wrong and greedy to sap resources from Mid and South Co just so N Fulton can live in the lap of luxury.
And as far as N fulton bearing the tax load for all of the Co, thats insane. Most affluent people above the 250k tax bracket have access to all sorts of loops and tax shelters, and let me remind the readers here that due to the bush era tax cuts N fulton residents pay very little in taxes compared to most other metros with affluent areas.
I think its better suited to say that N fulton has hogged its share of resources from Atlanta and S fulton, which is why there are SO many economically depressed areas south of buckhead.
Well, then let em leave. Lets see how far milton Co can get on its own but please.....if any of you residents of N. fulton travel anywhere, do NOT be the first to claim "were from Atlanta!".....please....smh.
#epicFAIL at the notion of Milton Co. But hey Im in Dekalb Co by a few feet so hey......Ill be fine. But I promise you as Atl is a majority African American metro (well over 58% black and alot of affluent, INFLUENTIAL blacks at that) you can bet there will be a MAJOR national backlash and media melee over this. What a way for GA to make the headlines......smh
I understand the arguments about this being a racial issue, but honestly I'm not so sure. North Fulton is not some exclusive enclave -- plenty of people of all races live there. The schools are mixed, as are income levels and just about everything else.
By the way, as I understand it, the new Milton County will extend south to the Atlanta city limit, along the border with Buckhead. Is that right? And did somebody say it would now include Dunwoody? How would that work?
If Milton County is created, they'll be more than fine. Alpharetta and Johns Creek are looking more and more like Atlanta's Silicon Valley (and I say "Altanta" in the metro sense). HP is expanding there, Macy's IT, and I just heard a German company is locating to North Fulton. If Milton County happens, I'll be looking to see if what was North Fulton is no longer sucking the economic life out of South Fulton. I'll expect South Fulton to flourish.
But personally, I'd break up Fulton County completely and incorporate it into the surrounding counties.
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Taxation w/out representation?
